Guy Felicella on Addiction Recovery, Resilience, and Men’s Mental Health

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Welcome to. He cast the official podcast of

he changed it. As always I am Mike Chisholm.

As always I am excited to be here.

It is a pleasure to to do this. I have a gratefulness Journal

that I write in. Hey, you know what?

Stop throwing rocks at me. It's a good thing.

Try it yourself. It's a good thing to do.

I have A gratefulness Journal that I write in.

And one of the things in the morning that it asks me to do is

to write down three things that would make today.

Great every single time I have a podcast day.

I know it's already going to be a great day.

I have never done one of these, that hasn't been part of a great

day. I love doing this show and I

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We are non-discriminatory when it comes to devices or anything

else around here and if hey if you wouldn't mind liking

subscribing, sharing this show. We would appreciate that as

well. Now, I am really, of course

excited. As I said earlier, I'm also

touched in my heart about the guests that we have today, the

Jewelry is unbelievable. I'm not going to bury the lead

and we're going to get to it. Now you for folks who have been

watching or listening to he cast for the last year or so you

would have known that we came into contact with an

organization called Mom, stop the harm and and and have had

some of the folks associated with that organization on here

on. He cast already.

And I mean, I think about Helen and some of the other people who

have been on here and shared their stories of losing.

A family members to substance abuse and what substance abuse,

you know, the the misconceptions that we have when it comes to

substance abuse and who the players are involved, you know,

from a stereotypical point of view versus reality and we've

had all sorts of things. I tell us optic network is just

put our first episode. They have the first episode of

he cast on, tell us and it's Helens episode.

We felt it's very important. That would be an episode that

that gets out there to a wider audience.

Audience more quickly. Sometimes we get a chance to

encounter people who don't get the ending, that is

stereotypical. When it comes to this subject

matter, the gentleman that we have on today is certainly an

example of that and even more guy fella Cella.

If first off, when you're done this podcast, not before.

Don't leave the podcast before to do this.

After the pod. Guest is done guy fellow.com.

But his TED talks on this subject are nothing short of

expert from a variety of perspectives, including being

Hands-On lived on the streets of Vancouver for decades and and

understands this problem that our society, no matter where we

live and the geography of North America, no matter where we are

right now, this is a problem that is universal.

It's plaguing us all and just like Men's mental health is

largely hidden and misunderstood.

So guy has graciously, given his time to be on he cast today.

We're so excited to have you on here guy fella Cella.

Thank you so much for taking time out of your crazy day to be

on. He cast today.

Hey, Mike, thanks for having me just, you know, grateful to be

able to carry the message to other people and hope it

inspires others to do better and be better.

My word, man. You just listen to two or three

minutes of, either of your TED Talks, spend 5 to 10 minutes,

not even 5 to 10 minutes on your website and the inspiration

already starts to begin. Also, the thought-provoking

messages that you give penetrate deep, you you are really good at

taking messages, that a lot of people want to just kind of keep

an arm's length and making them accessible to to, to the Average

person who may not, you know, they're going through their

daily lives and things like that.

And they may not think about this stuff very much.

You were really good at creating a thought-provoking emotional

response to this stuff. I assume it has to do with the

fact that you've lived it. Yeah, yeah.

Very very much. I mean, you know, you go through

many stages in life and you you learn a lot from your

experience. I often say It's You Can't Buy

experience but it sure cost a lot, that's for sure.

And especially in my life, I learned a lot, not only in

seeing a lot but, you know, I've seen the worst of the worst and

then I've seen the best of The stand.

And you know, you look through that through a lens that

develops, a character of one of, you know, I wouldn't believe I

would care as much as I do today because of what I experienced

and that that teaches you something as a person struggling

for all those years and you definitely remember.

You know, you always remember one thing, when you meet people,

it's the, you know, you'll, you'll always remember how they

made you feel. That's The one thing that that

I've taken away with life and it meant a lot to me when I

struggled and somebody just cared and that gives you moments

of hope that when you have hope can lead to opportunity and when

you have opportunity, everything can align.

And in one day because I was that guy that people said he

will never change. He's going to die.

And, you know, you I wasn't going to give up but hearing

those words also didn't help. And so I think a lot of the

times in our society we reflect on the things that we blame,

people sure there's comes to a point where there has to be a

person takes responsibility, but also people have to have the

opportunity and that's how the system fails people.

The powerful words right there, my word.

I want to get into some of those things as we get into our

discussion here, before we do just to provide our audience

with perspective, what is your current position and job right

now? So yeah, I'm a clinical advisor

for three organizations which is the BC Center on substance.

Use Vancouver Coastal Health, Regional addiction program. and

also the provincial overdose Emergency Response Center and

then off to the side, I guess I have my own public speaking

company where I educate people on the stigma discrimination

harm reduction recovery, all aspects of mental health and

substance use disorders and just my through my own personal

experience and story and I often, you know, share my story

to high school students car References, you know, Galas.

So it's, that's probably my most rewarding work is as definitely

educating the youth. Well, I appreciate the fact that

you're able to do both even in the intro video on your website.

You talk about how the health authorities that you work for,

have given you the ability to talk about how you feel in your

experience is, you know, that's that's a very small sentence in

a Filled video, but really in the end, there's two things to

that number one speaking. I don't want to overstep and

say, you're speaking necessarily on behalf of the health

authority. That's a big, that's a big

organization and all that, but the fact that you're allowed to

be to speak with Candor about these things in your experience.

And whatnot, that is a huge thing.

When you work for a bureaucratic organization where there's a lot

of red tape and a lot of opinions and different things

that that you got to deal with, they're juxtaposed with what you

get to do. Do on the other side of things,

I would think that the speaking going to speak to kids, the

writing that the TED Talks the, the different organizations that

you get to touch that way. I would assume that fuels like

that's living life in color and then you got kind of the

administrative black and white stuff.

I assume that that fuels the other one, doesn't it?

Oh, most most definitely. Yeah, for sure because you learn

a lot working in organizations to and corporations and you know

it's great. Knowledge is a huge part of the

power which how you're going to speak to.

And so you learn a lot through that and you know I was always

good no matter what. Even when I didn't have a job or

I was addicted to substances, I was good with finding loopholes,

you know, that's kind of My a.d.d.

That's what it does. Is it looks for, okay, this is

how it is. So how do I, how do I find, you

know, an Avenue in there to try to do?

It doesn't mean that I can't do this and so, you know, those

those things are are really what you try to do.

Even in today's society, is basically look for the loopholes

to, to Really support people because I find You know, there's

been a lot of change, especially the organizations that I work

with. There's been a tremendous amount

of change where people are starting to actually, not just

listen, but actually apply some action to behind what's being

said. And so that's, that's rewarding

to see change because I've been seeing this for a long time and

I tell you in the 80s, you know, if you were a substance easier,

your only option at that point was you know, you're going to go

to get arrested and go to jail and that just never helped

anybody. No.

And so at least help the private prison organization in the

states and it helped bureaucrats create jobs and things like that

at the expense of people. Sorry, I didn't mean to be

facetious. I didn't mean to that was the

inside voice coming out. Sorry about that.

But but it's so true. Right like that?

That's where. Yeah.

You know, I think a lot of the things that stops change to is

because people have made a living off of keeping it the way

it is. And so we have to look at, you

know, Society has dramatically changed in the last few years,

obviously with the pandemic with the overdose emergency you know

we really have to look at doing things differently and you know

I I've gone and done talks and highwomen High schools, where,

you know, I always say, listen, people who use drugs or

struggling, that they're not bad people, they just in bad

circumstances where it's so much impacted.

He used to come up to me after the talk where he said.

I just I really appreciated you saying that drug users aren't

bad people. My dad died of a drug overdose

in 2020 and I don't share that with people I say that he died

of a brain. Your ISM.

And he and I made that is like intergenerational trauma being

passed on to this young kid and I mean, I almost like broke

down, but he really, he really felt comfortable to tell me

that, but the sad part is that, he felt so uncomfortable and and

ashamed because of how people view people who use drugs.

Yeah. Now, I mean, this is a I usually

say this till the end of the episode where I either try and

and guilt or beg or plead somebody to come back on after.

We've had a good episode, I'm going to ask you, right, this

right now, the reason why I'm saying this, you brought up no

less than five subjects that we could do an hour on in

everything that you just said everything from I found I found

drugs because of add what, you didn't exactly say.

But there's a lot of folks who have we talked about that on

this podcast. For folks who have ADD many

times will find drugs because it's one of the things that will

kind of level them off a little bit.

So there's that. Okay, then we move to

misconceptions then we move to shame and I mean holy smokes

could we do a podcast on shame and and what it leads to and

never mind some of the other things that you talked about

their you know, when Helen mom stop the harm when Ellen

Jennings was on? And she talked about the idea

of, you know, I think about this boy.

Right now, the first thing that comes to my mind is I tell

people, I don't tell people, he died of a drug overdose and she

used the word with her. She lost two boys in two

different circumstances years later from each other.

And and you know, the talk about the idea, you know, I mean, you

know, the stats better than anybody.

How many of the misconceptions that we have out there?

When people died of Overdose, most of the time, it's alone.

Many, if not most times, it's in the home.

It's, it's a completely different animal.

More than what most people stereotype it for, and she

called it a, she calls it poisonings, you know, the

language is different. And I think about that boy, at

that high school right now. And it's like, now, his dad was

poisoned and, and, you know, I the shame that he's feeling at

that age is not something that someone should ever have to

feel. And, and it's because of the

society that we live in, and it's up to us to talk about this

stuff. The uncomfortable stuff, You are

very good at one of the things that either somebody said about

you, or you said, when it came to coming to talk to kids at

school, I remember being at school, receiving that talk and

that's all I really have to say it for the folks who are

listening to the audio, I just put up the air quotes, Okay?

That talk when a speaker would come in and assembly, they

gather the whole school together and that talk would happen.

And I'm not saying I'm not trying to be sarcastic or

cynical towards anybody who ever presented to children with the

right intentions. That's not I'm doing here.

But what I am saying is sometimes that there are more

powerful speakers than others with more powerful messages than

others and and topics that will come through.

That are a little bit less can maybe is a good word for I'm

trying to be as respectful as I can.

You clearly come in and you are different than a lot of these

folks. And many people have said that

about you, what is it about? Your message that makes you

different. Well, I mean, I guess, you know,

just because when you talk to kids, you have to go back to

remembering how you felt when you were a kid.

I think, you know, when you are struggling with anxiety and

depression and trying to be accepted and fit in and you

didn't feel comfortable in your skin sometimes and you know

what, you do these talks that's where you go, where I go, I

remember I just, you know, I have the ability to kind of know

the Sense of who I'm talking to you.

But also what relates to them and telling any kid, you know, I

never tell kids to go use drugs, but if they are using them, I

definitely tell them that they need to use them safely.

So just in those two, that sentence itself kids have come

up to me and be like he didn't tell us not to use drugs.

Yeah, the confusion, right? You they were almost like big.

What? They've just never heard from

that approach. And I'm like, why I'm not I'm

here to tell you how to live your life.

I'm just here to educate and they relate even through my

struggles. I think one of the biggest

things that if we don't think that our youth and growing up

aren't struggling with anxiety or some depression.

You know, it's trying to regulate your emotions is one of

the most challenging tasks that I've ever encountered in my life

and as a kid, I didn't have any coping mechanisms.

I had undiagnosed. Learning disabilities.

We're back. Then you were just either smart

or you were dumb, and I felt dumb my whole life and got

diagnosed later on in life. And then realized, you know, why

I use the drugs, I remember my doctor saying it was gave her

mate, and he just said to me, Guy.

I don't think you have a problem with drugs.

I think there's a reason why you use them.

The way you do that changed everything.

You just brought up a name. Okay, so so you're a guy that

works with, you know, his wife who's building a men's mental,

Wellness podcast, mental Wellness application.

And they're talking about, oh, yeah.

Who are some dream people to work with and and what Gabor

maté? Oh, my God.

Now, I was going to mention him a little bit later, but you

mentioned him now, we haven't gotten to your story yet, and

perhaps it might be a better idea to provide a little

context, but you mentioned his name?

How in the hell did you get associated with governmet?

A holy smokes? You talk about a man who has

challenged the way that that people think and has been a

life? Not just a light bulb, not not

even a search. What he's gonna flood light for

insight? As to how we view The Human

Experience. I mean you're talking about a

world-class thinker and an educator and and healer I mean

if you want to call it that as well.

How did you get associated with him?

Well, when I was he worked in the downtown Eastside and work

for, you know, multiple agencies down there and we kind of came

in contact at Insight at first and then he was a doctor at

Portland Housing Society. He ran was the doctor at CT CT,

which is a community transition plays for people receiving

antibiotics because you know, sauce, Substance user.

I had, you know, I survived five.

Osteomyelitis bone infections which life-threatening for, and

my left leg one in my back. And if I didn't get treatment

for for my leg, I would have lost my leg and he was one of

those. The doctor, my doctor that

really brought a lens of saying, you know, he basically just said

to me like, how do I, how do I keep you comfortable here?

And I understand that you have to, I know like your life and he

didn't judge me for the life that I was living.

He said, you know, you have to have antibiotics that are pumped

into your heart every four hours for three months.

And how do I, how do I help you achieve that?

And I just said, why I just can't be in withdrawal.

And I said, honestly, you know, I've been discharged from

hospitals because I couldn't stop using heroin and I remember

the doctor. They're To me the antibiotics

won't work well Gabe or said to me.

Yes, they will. You can continue using heroin.

I just need you to continue to get your antibiotics.

And that's reason why I have a leg today and then he saw my

mannerisms because he has ADHD as well.

And he said, you know, that's where he made that comment, you

know, I think there's a reason why you use the substances the

way you do. And And I said well that's not

what people have said to me, people keep saying, get off the

drugs, your life will get better and I go I have gotten off

drugs, my life didn't get better, got predominantly worse

because I didn't understand how to cope, and he, he opened a

door. And then I was diagnosed, and

once I was diagnosed, I just remember the shame just kind of

melted away from me where I said to the specialist.

As I always, I've always So stupid that and she said guys, I

know like you've had to actually learn how to function without

having any support in it, and I just made me break down and and

it was, it was a short time after that, you know, I had, you

know, brought back to life six times, you know, struggle with

homelessness for four decades, not only as a youth, but as an

adult, you know, ends in and out of prison.

Stantly for from 1984 to 2013. I mean, literally people just

never thought that I would have capacity to change wasn't until

people like Gabe war and others. That started to look at.

How do we support this guy to get them to the next level?

And for me at the end, my last overdose which was February

18th, 2013. At the supervised consumption

site and I was gone for about took me, it took them seven

minutes to bring me back. Took me about 10 minutes to

actually get up, and when I got up, the nurse was crying.

And she, I just looked at her and I just Said, why are you

crying? And she said, because I care and

I just broke down and started to cry and I was February 18th.

My sobriety date is March, 18th, 2013, and I basically walked

away from the downtown east side of Vancouver with a welfare

check and one set of clothes and went to an outpatient program

and stay at a transitional. Recovery House in Surrey and

rebuilt. My whole life.

That and got trauma therapy at this.

Outpatient facility where I had group counseling counseling and

my life started to really change and I built it to, you know what

it is today. I intentionally avoided your

story at first when we started this because I wanted our

audience and the audience. It's to come because I believe

this is a, this is a conversation that should be and

will be shared. I wanted our audience to see you

now and to hear you now and to have little tidbits of the story

because the story is unbelievable in itself.

But I don't want the story to become the story.

I won't where you're at now and what you're doing now because

you are, you were ringing, the bell, the emergency Bell as to

what's happening right now and it's really easy.

To get caught up whether it's a dramatic movie or a book or

something like that in the process of getting there.

Okay. Your story is incredible and

you've given enough already enough details about it, but I

wanted to talk about guy in the present before.

We went to guy in the past like I want, of course, we want to

know about how and I'm sure you've truncated the story to

the point where you can, you can, you could kind of go

through it, and I'm sure you've got different versions of how

you you, you talk about it. But at the end of the day, the

present day is where we have the Emergency in our continent and

and I love how you just cut through the bullshit of, you

know, there's there's there's two schools of thought.

I don't want to oversimplify but many times the average person

looks. And they see two, they have

there's two schools of thought that they can kind of look

towards its treatment. You know, versus the idea of

punishment or drug control, or, you know, the other There's two

kind of arguments there and you say I don't care about either

those things I care about people and I love that and and, and

hearing that nurse crying for you.

Six time that you had been gone and, and you wake up and

suddenly you have a lightbulb moment, you got that woman cared

about people then I think about Gabor, you know, Saying that one

thing to you melting away, shame and others and I'm glad you

mentioned others to Cowboys. Just the sound bite that we can

you know, obviously right. There's a but others saying to

you and giving you these light bulb moments where shame melts

away that's a huge thing. And by the way that's Universal,

there's a lot of guys out there who have been categorized and

categorized, and as a result categorize themselves as dumb

have been full of Shame, have regulated themselves to a

certain life. Because simply they didn't go

down the path. Far enough of self-exploration

to ask the question. Why and and that moment of

having shame melted away? I want to talk about that just

for a second here. I mean, I'm a big fan of brene

brown and and her work on shame and talking about shame, not a

popular subject, but a lot of us feel it.

How good does it feel to have? Years worth of Shame melt away

and it happens in moments. Sometimes for people, that's a

universal thing. You don't have to be a, not the

drug thing. That's a human condition.

How good does it feel to have that Shane Melt Away?

I definitely keeps you trapped in a prison shame and so it's

kind of like, you know, being released like having a sense of

freedom, because of something, you couldn't understand what it

is. It's almost like you're trying

to figure out the puzzle but there's a big piece that you

can't find, and then when you find that piece and it makes it

all clear, like the vision becomes a reality now.

Now, yes, it's the dream that you've often hope for can become

real. It's almost like you can, you

can touch it now. You can see it.

Now, you know, dreams are one thing hard Works makes dreams

happen, but you have to, you have to remove that that chain

piece. And it just gave me the ability

to actually say, let's do this. Like you know, and I don't think

we as people celebrate trying enough because people are trying

well we shame people when the successful outcome isn't to the

standards of what we would our expectation is.

See you have to you have to celebrate that people get up

constantly. I always look at people that are

trying and I say to myself, Oh, boy.

Yeah, out of the way because this guy is figuring it out and

we have to really start to celebrate that.

People are trying in our society.

Maybe they're not getting the outcome that they're that

they're, they're Desiring, but they're still trying.

And I think when you do that, that's the encouragement, that

that keeps the shame away, you know, be like, hey man, all

good, man. I have a guy that went to

treatment and he lasted 14 days and he came out and use He was

just devastated and I said, what the heck are you like beating

yourself up for? He goes, ah, you know, I didn't

get the outcome, I want it, and I said, how many days were you

sober? And he's, like, 14.

I said when was the last time your 14 days sober?

As like, I don't even know and I'm going will, dude, that's a

miracle, man. And you change the perspective

for people to actually see that. Oh, my God.

Yeah, I was doing it and it's like, there you go.

Now, we learned from that and we build off that that's success.

Oh my god, let's celebrate. Right.

Trying, here's the Grinders out there.

By the way, all the Grinders who are hey, any guy or gal for that

matter, but anybody out there who is listening to this or

watching this and is grinding it out, whatever that looks like

whether or not like you got your head down, you're just moving

forward, just trying to go day-to-day.

We're thinking about the Grinders right now and and if

you can just maybe change your perspective, like guy is talking

about and maybe look to something a little bit to get

you out of the rut that you might.

Be in or whatever. That is the grinding is the

skill needed to do that. We just need to get the

destination and the route to the destination but the grinding is

the actual skill that you have phenomenal message right there.

Guy. Thank fucking.

Thank you so much for saying that.

That is a, that is a really important thing that we all need

to hear. And and I want to, I want to

dovetail it over to changing the perspective because I can't tell

you and it might Be drugs or alcohol.

Alcohol is a drug I. Oh, man, and your Ted talk.

When you talk about how, you know, we talked about the idea

of how we manage substances every day and it's fine.

It's called your bar, your bar is there and, and, you know, it

might be the bartender calling you a gap or whatever.

That is exactly the same thing as a safe injection site, it's

just more socially acceptable. Bam, male.

Mm, fuck yeah. I love that.

So changing the perspective and that's what we do.

I think about any time growing up.

Up with the, the just say, no mentality.

That was, that was just the rhetoric.

That was, was pumped into me from when I was a little kid.

And the result of that, when I would hear about an alcoholic,

who went through treatment or a program, or a life Moment of

clarity, change their life and everybody celebrates.

And then you here one, two, three months, six months a year,

six years, 10 years. The line that person falls off

the wagon, right? And how everybody is want to

talk about and the shame in the, you know, because oh no, we

celebrated that we, we button that up.

That was done. It don't work like that.

That's, that's, that's Hallmark. That's that's, that's

television. That's that's fantasy, that that

it doesn't life does not work that way.

And and you giving that perspective your again, I called

you a floodlight, you are that that 14-day deal was a good

deal. Deal.

And it was on the right progression in the right path.

That's a perspective that we need to have.

So that's just me. Give an exclamation points to

what you're saying. I can't thank you enough for

saying those things I want to time.

Yeah. Okay.

So we're already a half hour into this thing.

When did you, you know, I assume school, learning disabilities.

These sorts of things were the gateway to you getting to the

life that you got to at what point were you living?

On the street and was it a direct result of that?

Was it also problems at home. What was it that led you to

living on the street? Yeah, a lot of a lot of

dysfunctional, home life, trauma, you know, alcoholism you

know, I often call my my parents, you know, physically

there but emotionally void. And so, as a kid I struggled

with my own anxiety and depression and you know, saw

things that average kids would never see in their Lives.

What does what does that mean? I don't want.

I don't want to get too specific, but just just like

what what's a give us a little bit of a like, what does that

mean? What did you see as a kid that a

lot of kids are my there was some there was some domestic

violence. Okay.

Yeah abuse verbal abuse, you know when you're dealing with

that and trying to hear your views.

I often new Young. When I would go over to other

kids houses. The things were very different

over there. Come.

Yes. When you can compare, I realized

You know that there was there was some issues.

And for me I'd ran away from I started running away from home

at 12 years old and you know I got involved with gangs you know

even though you know when I when I started getting involved with

them people, you know, they were much older than me and, you

know, people would say that, you know, you were probably being

groomed. And yeah, even if I was I didn't

really care because it was acceptance, which is something

that's huge for used. If you're not accepted in your

life. Life of who you are as a person

and somebody accepts to you, that's love to you.

That felt good. You know started going into

juvenile detention by the time I was 14.

My my mom made me awarded the court which, which kind of

really was one of those things where I basically, when I heard

those words, I didn't really understand what it meant, but it

meant that the province was now going to take over my care,

which was very defeating for any fourteen-year-old.

The Here. And and and then you get out of

juvenile detention and your bounced around from group home

to group home, and you're struggling with learning

disabilities, unresolved, trauma and drug use, and I started

running away from that and running into the downtown

Eastside at a very early age, got involved with heavier drugs,

you know, I'd been forced into treatment as use, you know, work

programs. You name it.

They tried it. They tried to punish me, they

tried to punish it. A out of me, you know, they're

often looked at, you know, the iron Rod of discipline, that

that's what he needs. He's just a bad kid, and sadly,

for me, it just made me run away from everything including myself

and that's where the homelessness started.

You know, I did have some moments of success.

I did try to get a life, you know, I did have a couple years

under my belt between you know, 18 to 22.

I was just trying, I wasn't sober or anything, but I was

trying to do what society would call normal to feel like I was

part of society, you know, and I just had these overwhelming

thoughts of sadness and and then the heavy heavy drugs, I started

getting back into those and then that really was the Crux that

drove me into the downtown east side of Vancouver from 1993 to

2013. I really never left either to be

incarcerated and then once I was released back out onto the

streets, so you see a lot and I mean, you know, sadly for me the

stuff that I had to survive as a youth was only preparing me for

the biggest battle of my adult life which was going to be my

addiction to those substances, my undiagnosed learning

disabilities. And the mental health challenges

that I was struggling with and so, you know, maybe it's you

looking back. It probably prepared me to be

here today. Yeah, with it'll do you took one

for the team and I view you to one for the team like you

absolutely did. There's no question.

And what a, what a responsibility.

Oh my god. Did you ever take one for the

team in, what was the formative years of your life?

Yeah. I mean you know and might like I

always say the biggest regret that I've ever had was the

damage that I caused communities or people that ran into me or

came through my life. Or you know there was there's

those moments where you look back and you'll never get to

apologize to everybody. So what I make sure in my new

life is that, you know, I do the things to change.

So that people truly know just how I'm sorry I am because I

heard a lot of people as well and so I don't take that lightly

either. And that's that's part of change

where you accept responsibility for your past.

And your past, I always say this to people is that it doesn't

Define you, what defines you is what you do today.

And so I don't carry the shame of the past.

Yes, it's part of my story. Yes, it happened.

And I didn't want to be anonymous.

I didn't want to be part of some quiet.

Where you just, you know, know, I didn't want anonymity, I

wanted to be a voice because what I see is that there's so

many people out there that were struggling and years ago where I

just said, you know what, I'll just share my story and whoever

wants to hear it if it helps one person, then that's fantastic.

You just never know what you're going to expect when you start

doing that. But the amount of people that

have reached out to me over the years and we're talking

everybody. Judges to police that two social

workers to counselors two, Corrections Officers to

everybody there just like shocked.

I've had gang squad called me from the past.

Say hey dude, unbelievable, how you change, what a frickin life,

you have. Like they even them thought, you

know, everybody thought this guy's going to be dead by the

time he's 30. Well, I'm hanging.

It in at 53 right now. Well, you're a cat and, and you

and to their point In fairness, you were dead.

A few times have half a dozen. You got a few lives left.

I just, and I'm not trying to make light even a little bit.

This is just it's an unbelievable story and the idea,

you know, you talk about people caring and and again we talked

about how that's that's you. You respect people, you care

about people gab or same thing. It shows that you know,

Corrections Officers teachers, you know, getting people in the

gang. Whatever the commonality here is

that humans actually do have that capacity for caring, no

matter what their lot in life, no matter where they are in

life, they have that capacity. I've got a good friend, her name

is Angie clowry. Shout out to Angie.

She is doing a tremendous amount of work with the homeless here

in Kelowna advocate in so many ways has her head on straight,

where she can kind of speak both languages.

She can kind of speak the language of folks on the

outside, or by law or Bureaucrats.

But then also right on the very front lines talking she's

educated me so much on the idea and I'm going to get back to

acceptance here in a second because I think it's really

important as humans. How we have that that need to be

cared for to be accepted. Angie has done a tremendous job

of educating me about the culture within the homeless

cultures I should say it's not just one because I mean there's

all sorts of different groups that I think get unfairly

grouped together. Are all of them probably

thinking that it's unfair that they're grouped with the other

ones because it's a much more complex thing you talk about

acceptance and and you know, you tried, you know, your early 20s

to get accepted by Society to grind it out to live the life

that was taught to you as a kid that what we're supposed to do

and, and that didn't do it for you.

You moved in the dissent happened but with that descent.

My question for you is, was there an acceptance?

Since you know, you think about East Hastings.

I that's that's the slum area Vancouver that when I was a kid,

you talk about 93, igrad in 94, I was going to concerts every

other weekend down in Vancouver, we would have to cross over.

So we're going from the Commodore, Ballroom down to the

Town, Pump through gas town. We had to cross through the

exact area you're talking about. I might have bumped shoulders

with you. I went through that area so many

times and the, you know, I just I got goosebumps as you're

talking about this because I might have walked by you and I

just think about all of the people that I did walk by going

through that area. And my question is is one of the

reasons you got into the heavier drugs, all that kind of stuff,

okay? But were you also accepted by

this culture down there and win and you get a you know we use

the term street-smart and I'm certain that you have a much

different definition of that than I would.

Normal a lot of people would. But is that part of it?

Was it like okay here's a group of people that actually accept

me for who I am here and I like that.

Is there a part of you that could say that that's a true

statement or did you hate every minute of it?

No, I think you're right. I think one of the things that I

related to for sure was that I could see that other people were

struggling with pain and there's it's comforting to hang around.

Other people who are struggling or trying to find an Avenue to

heal. I mean, that was the one thing

that kept me connected is that, you know, people did care about

me. You know, we may have not shared

our struggles openly with each other all the time, but there

was moments of You know, I heard so many stories from, you know

what people had to endure through their through their

lives and and the reality is that that connects you, it's it,

you're not feel so isolated anymore.

That was one of the first things when I went to the downtown

Eastside that I related to was pain and you know, oftentimes to

what people see down there and what's reality is that The

downtown Eastside has an unaddressed poverty issue.

That that's not a drug issue. Nope, that's a non address

poverty issue, and same with on the streets of Kelowna, that's a

poverty issue. And you see what we do is we

scapegoat and blame it all on the drugs then we don't address

the poverty issue. Well these are those groups I'm

talking about that have been kind of lumped together by

everybody except for the people in the situation or the educated

and the It is a frightening frightening, Leaf.

You amount of people, please continue.

Yeah, yeah, still. This is a byproduct.

If you struggle with trauma and poverty is trauma, as well, you

know, drugs become a reasonable response when Society sits there

and points fingers and doesn't do anything, you know, I just

got, I just got a friend who was homeless for five years in the

downtown Eastside. She got housing and you know

what she said to me guy 99 Problems.

Problems and getting housing sold 90mm.

Like that when she said that to me, I was just like yeah.

And then she's got pictures of her phone or her new suites and

how she had it all set up and she throw.

I didn't want to hide out. Exactly.

And, and guess what? Like, shame gone.

Like they don't know, is so freaking powerful and the and

her her happiness like to have her own blood?

Like she's got a door that locks like I got a nice sweet.

I have a bathroom, I have a shower, I have a kitchen.

I have my own bedroom. My kids can come see me now,

man. I mean that That, that to me is

the the unaddressed real issues behind everything but we'll all

blame and look at Society be like, no, other drug users,

they're criminals. They're they do Prime.

It's like, no it really stems from us not offering people

affordable housing, you like, I mean, listen, most people in our

society are living one paycheck to the next now, yep.

Now right. And and and guess what Who who

are struggling with poverty are suffering even more and yet

we're all talking about. What about the economy?

What about Healthcare? It's like, yeah.

But what about helping people that need help the most instead

of just saying, you know, or pointing fingers and creating

this language, that's very stigmatizing and discriminating

against people. You know, last time I check

poverty, isn't a crime. Yeah, but Elites to it like it

leads to it, like it's Criminal. Leads to it by the way.

Sure. Yeah.

Because you know what happens when you listening, you look at

any place. You look at any place like w,

Compton, California, San Francisco.

This is what. When you don't address poverty,

guess what? That means, people have to take

matters into their own hands and that can mean selling you'll

have to sell drugs, but we'll all blame you for doing the

selling the drugs to people and will blame you for that now, but

we haven't offered people housing.

We have an offer. People employment.

You know, I think the one thing that's changed a little bit with

covid is that, you know, the economy actually needs people to

work now. Yeah, I always tell people, hey,

you probably don't even need a resume, you can probably walk in

and get a job. Yep.

You know, I just I think we have to do more really support people

along the Continuum and, and change our approaches and

Society, but like we talked about earlier on the show, you

know, people don't want to change because that'll impact.

The person's employment or their lives.

Are you Joe Rogan guy at all using a Rogan?

I don't. But, I mean, I watch them on UFC

or yeah. And you've heard things.

I'm sure like, I mean, you know, he's that right now.

He is currently the the biggest broadcaster in the world.

There is no broadcaster that is bigger than Joe Rogan and and

one of the interesting things I'll really truncate.

It Joe Rogan just recently moved from California.

When you to Austin and and one of the reasons why is he didn't

feel he just saw where that you know, he's a hockey example, you

know Wayne Gretzky, he he wasn't, he wasn't covered where

the puck was going, he wasn't comfortable where things are

happening, the trajectory of what's Happening down there when

it comes to a lot of these issues.

And so he moved over to Austin. And and again, this is the

universality of what we're talking about here.

Every city in North America is starting to deal with this on

either minor or major scales. It is a, as this App that you

talk about gets gets bigger as the people who are living

paycheck to paycheck. Lose a paycheck or two and and

this shit starts to hit the fan. It's becoming more and more of a

problem. And, and so, you know, he talked

about what they're doing California.

I think about again in the States, but, you know, the

private prison system, but also some of the things, the

institutional things in Canada, where we spend our money on.

And, and he talked about in Austin, how this is happening

and the City of Austin just went out and they spent a shit ton of

money. They gave all these people

housing and they bought hotels, and they did all these sorts of

things to give these all of these people house.

And what they've done and this is just since in the year and a

half or whatever that he is moved from one place to the

other and and we need to I'm not broadcasting this because I'm

trying to throw people over at Joe Rogan's podcast.

I think people are going to my podcast.

I'm saying that because we need people like yourself like Joe

who are seeing successful things like your friend who you know,

90 90 of the problem of her 99 Problems solve with housing.

We need to talk about that more. I've had a local city councilor

on On our podcast, talking about the the crime that's happening

downtown because of the housing and how to had what to do about

it. This is, these are the

conversations that we need to have.

Because I mean that's that's what's going to help solve the

problems, and it's empathy, it comes into empathy, whether it's

drugs, whether it's poverty, whether it's learning

disabilities, we need to have empathy for each other, and, and

the almighty dollar needs to take a backseat because if we

start with empathy and we start solving problems, the almighty

dollar can Made doing that. The whole reason candy and her

team started this thing was candy was involved in a in the

charity sectors of the world, different charities that she

worked with and she said, you know what, there's a lot of

Charities out there that really at the end of the day, don't

there, it's great that they try and help manage things and they

help people. And they've got their heart in

the right place, but at the end of the day, they're not trying

to solve the problem. They don't try to put themselves

out of business. I think that's that's, that's

the that's The thing and you know, that's where we need to

realize, okay. You know what, social Enterprise

might actually be the way to go in order to solve some of these

issues. So I don't know if that I don't

know if any of that make sense. I kind of went on a tangent

there but but at the end of the day you know we can probably I

believe that we can make this economically feasible as well as

make the world a better place at the same time.

If we just make that the goal, yeah, we need to focus on like,

you know, Shelters. Don't shelters create.

The illusion that people are being housed.

But shelters aren't homes. Yes, it's a step, it's a step in

the process. Yeah, we need to go to be

solution solution orientated with the timeframe of action.

And by the way, of Joe Rogan ever wanted me to go on as

podcast. I'd gladly accept to there you

go. Yeah, there you go.

But I think you know, in our society that's the reality is

that when you You have to start giving people homes, and when

you can do that, then people can get the support, then we can

build on getting them the support for the underlying

issues, whether that's, you know, drug use, or mental

health, issues, or employment, or undiagnosed, learning

disabilities. But yeah, if this were, if we're

talking about youth, we look at things differently.

But remember people have fallen through the cracks and that are

adults, they were one's youth. That fell through the Yes.

And we failed them then and we're failing them now, and if

we don't change our approach has on things, this is going to get

extremely volatile and worse in our society.

So we have Age first to go back to jail for a second.

I would love you on that show. The reason I would love you on

that show is because he's talked about this a lot.

And, and, and, and having experts on is what he does.

He famously talked Out how stupid he is.

He wants to have people smarter than him, who have been through

things to discuss this. And then the other piece of that

puzzle is he goes long form. Like we're I hate to say we're

kind of steering towards the end of this conversation when it

just feels like it's just starting he goes 3 hours with

folks because because that's these aren't soundbite things

that that can be and I it drives me crazy.

When I see political campaigns both across the border Up here

in Canada where they talk about homeless.

They talk about drugs, they talk about these things and they try

and melt it down into sound bites.

It does not work that may get people votes from the people who

actually go and vote and that's them playing their little game.

We're talking about life here though and and this life is not

one that can be lived in sound bites, it's just not.

And and I love the idea of you going there being able to shed

light. So let's let's get that campaign

going. Let's see if we can make that

happen. No guy.

I'm serious with it to like You'd be fucking great for it.

You'd be perfect. You need a bigger megaphone to

do this and I just love what you're doing, I want to okay

again, please come back, please come back around.

He casting we can talk about this stuff more.

You know when I told you about, we got introduced with the

mutual friend and and I talked to you on the phone and I gave

you probably a 15-minute brain dump as to what he changed it as

do. Because it's a lot of guys there

who haven't moved into The Fringe become marginalized.

And a lot of those guys who are in the middle of things that are

grinding, the Grinders, you know, that are just trying to

make things a little bit better. I talk a little bit about that

and I talked about the silent crisis of men's mental, health,

and mental Wellness. What do you think about what it

is? That my wife and her team are

doing with the app and all of that stuff?

We do you think about? He changed it?

All right. I think it's fantastic.

I mean I think you guys Guys are onto something for sure.

And I, I mean, it's already the successful people that you've

had on it already. And just the amount of people

that are checking it out, I, I've shared it with a bunch of

my connections as well. You know, I think we all have

collectively do, do a piece of it to bring the information to

people to try to change the narrative in our society.

Because, you know, the bottom line is that we care.

And, you know, He cast its we care to.

So those are the things when you when you care more than you,

don't those are the things that can change people who don't care

as well. Because, you know, you have to

really educate people with perspectives.

And I always say one, talk really isn't going to change,

you know, somebody's perspective.

But however, what I hope to always accomplish is just

planting a couple seeds here and there.

And when you, when you plant those seeds seeds can grow.

Go and change and it people do take time time time does check

help change as well. Change may happen in a second

but boy oh boy. The timing of change is one

thing that often takes time for people to figure it out and once

the pieces are there, Change can happen.

I love you. Planting seeds with our youth,

man. This is, this is where I think

there's Silver. Bullet is is when you go in the

more schools, the more colleges, the more groups of people who

are, who are interested that you go, and you plant these seeds

to, that's how we change things. That's you going in with a

fucking crop duster and and, and getting a lot of other voices

there to do this and I appreciate so much you doing

that. At and you taking you know you

got the nine lives, six of them are gone and now you're you're

taking number 7 and lucky number 7 and you're going crazy with it

in such a good way, you are changing the world.

I guy, I appreciate the hell out of you.

What if people want to come find you?

What do you have coming up? I want to plug anything and

everything that you're doing. I want to get us to start doing

that in the app, as the development starts to expand and

all that we're still in our infancy.

You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet with the And our friends that have

come along with us from the very beginning and recognizes from

the beginning, we're going to broadcast them like crazy but

for now we've got this podcast to do it.

What are the ways that people can find?

You social media, where are you active?

Where do you spend your time? And if people want to connect

with your message or you yourself, what's the best way to

do it? Yeah, you can.

I mean I'm on Twitter at guy fella Cella, Instagram is guy

fell until the public and obviously my Website is Guy

fella Cella.com. You can reach out to me on any

of those platforms. And I always, I always say this

to people to the truth is that if anybody takes the time to

reach out, I do take take that seriously.

And I take the time to respond and it's me personally that

response it's not some you know assistant or if I I know how

hard it is for for people to reach out.

And and so I'm very mindful that a lot of people actually say,

holy smokes, you sent message back and I'm like, oh yeah, that

that's how it works. You know, you send me a message

asking for advice and I'll, if I can't help you, then I'll still

respond and try to shift you to an organization that can.

So yeah, that's that's where I'm at, you know, looking forward to

finishing off the rest of the year.

I have a few If I'm in a mental health conference in Whitehorse

and September, I'm in Toronto in October, I'm doing a virtual

event in New York City in October as well.

And so yeah. Just you know, just trying to

share the message of Hope to people that you know people can

change when they are supported and and that we can change to to

help people. So yeah, just try to carry that

through to people but really thanks so much for Me on and I

wish you guys continued success and I am I am.

I will gladly accept right now that anytime you want to reach

out for me to come back. I'd be happy to chat with Mike.

I can't, I can't thank you enough for that.

Yeah, it's going to be the, the visions that we have, you know,

you know, the idea of a convention he Khan and you have

a stadium full of of guys or people who care about guys in

that Stadium. It's speakers and insights and

tools and all these sorts of things.

I mean, the visions that the team has is our our massive

world changing and and you're speaking just so, you know, when

that happens, you're going to be one of those guys, I'm going to

finish the question with a softball.

I'm going to literally love a softball right across the plate

to you because I know the answer but coming from you not just

because your story not just because of where you're going

with your Like all the Public's to things that you're doing but

also because you work for and we bring it back again, you work

for a health authority. You actually work for the

organizations that deal with this with Healthcare, which is a

hot-button issue and has been from the beginning of time as

our country has evolved and grown and we've chosen to go,

you know, with with universal versus versus private and all of

that stuff there, you actually are a cog in the machine sir.

So I'm going to ask you this question, this soft.

Ball across the plate. Are you so many people out?

There are pessimistic? Are you a pessimist about the

future about how we can we can improve things and change.

Things. Are you optimistic that we can

do this? I'm always optimistic, you know,

hope is the anchor to the soul, my friend and without having

hope you're not going to have much through life.

So I am definitely an optimist and a realist.

And you know like I said That's what that's what.

That's what really drives me is that I believe I believe and you

know what? It took me a long time because

others believe that I believe to and that's the that's the thing

that's the message that I'll continue to carry is that I'll

just believe and and until you believe and we push together we

will change things and it's happening a lot sooner than a

lot of People think so don't ever give up, keep trying

celebrate that trying because that's what we have man.

We got to celebrate trying. And I said it better myself and

we're going to end it right there.

Guy from the bottom of all of our hearts.

Thank you so much for being who you are and thank you for coming

on. He cast today.

That's it, they end. So they end so quickly.

Again I talked about them being the best part of my week.

They are. I love doing this so much and

conversations like this especially and especially the

ones that end with a message of Hope like that.

We want to change the world, we're all doing our part from

our vantage, point from our Active where all the shining

Diamond has many many, many Vantage points that come from as

many angles that come off of it? And, and guy is a phenomenal

example, he's probably the very top of the diamond, he's one of

the bigger services on that diamond, that's out there and we

just appreciate him so much. My name is Mike Chism, that's

another episode of he cast again.

If you if you wouldn't mind, please going and downloading the

app sharing it, same thing with the podcast, like share,

subscribe, all of that. I cannot wait for a time where I

don't have to say that message anymore.

Or when the overlords if he changed, it looked down on me

and say, good job. Faithful servant.

We now have the numbers that we need that.

We're looking for. You don't have to shill liking

sharing subscribing. We're not there yet.

I can't wait for that time. Please do that.

And you know what? If you listen to this message,

you know a guy that's struggling.

If you've listened to this episode and you're this far deep

in and you're still listening first off.

Congratulations well done. That's an exercise in

persistence. Right there, my friend.

I'm s. You know, a guy that struggle

And whatever they're struggling with whether it's actual

substances or the similar struggles that we go through.

That have the same effects, the shame, the the loss of hope, all

of that stuff share this episode with them.

There's a guy in your life that needs to hear guy.

Wow, there's a man in your life that needs to hear guy that's a

better way. Thank you very much for all of

your time, for everything. For all of the support, my name

is Mike Schism. That's another episode of he

cast the official podcast of he changed it.

Go change something.