Bruce Ross on Healing, Perspective, and Personal Growth

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Welcome to. He cast the official podcast of

he changed it as always, I am Mike Chisholm as always.

I am so excited to be here. You know, I'm a broken record

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It is. We're 100 episodes deep into

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Yeah, lots of lots of really good things happening.

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We're trying to show people how to do exactly that.

Always the guests that we have provide insights from their

Vantage Point how to do this. And I love the guests that we

have today. There's a d word that is out

there, that many folks, especially men avoid like the

plague they want to avoid it like you wouldn't, you wouldn't

believe we've wanted to do it in an episode of depression for a

while now and haven't really found the exact, right?

You know, Confluence of events combined with, with a guest

today is that today? Is that day?

We've got a guy on this podcast today who has not just

experience from a very young age, depression all the way into

into his further years of life, Decades of dealing with

depression, but learned how to manage and and and live with

depression many times. I don't even like talking about

this. The good news is, you don't have

to talk here. You can just listen or watch as

Bruce and I discuss his book. So, Bruce Ross is our guest

today. He has written the book breaking

free of depressions. Grip, a powerful success story.

I'm excited because the title is very, very much a title that a

man would put on. It's right on the nose, but

we're going to ask him if he's got some hidden meetings as

well. So the author of Breaking Free

of depressions grip. A powerful.

SS story. Bruce Ross.

Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day and

your schedule to be on he casted.

A thank you, Mike. Thanks for having me on your

show. And it's a great great

opportunity to share my story with other listeners that

partake so wonderful. Thank you.

Well, and it is as it's a hell of a story, it's a as I alluded

to it's a story that has it's still unfolding to this day and

the good news is unfolding in a place where you can take the

things that you have learned. And you can spread them around

now and I'm so grateful that we are on this side of the story

where it is, a lot of things that you have learned.

That is exactly what he changed. It is all about.

I want to go into the fact that 15 years old is when is when

these symptoms these started to manifest themselves in your

life. I mean, the word depression, the

evolution of what we know about depression in your journey has

changed many. Many times over my gosh, when

you were 15, you started dealing with depression.

Tell us your story Bruce and then we can get into the book

and all sorts of other fun stuff.

I just want to hear the story. Sure, just to kind of summarize

it, so, you're right. Michael was about 15 years old

and in grade, 10 actually, between grades 9 and 10, and I

started to feel displaced and some of the common symptoms that

you now identify depression, but I felt alienated displaced

fatigued, just bummed out all the time on and on it goes would

explore that later, but that's how I Felt unfortunately, I

didn't have a solid relationship with my parents and depression

mental health issues. Certainly weren't on the radar

at that time. Anyway, yeah, so I didn't know

what I was dealing with. I just knew something was kind

of ask you with how I felt and I tried to deal with it myself for

years. And in fact, 20 years actually

and I just lived every day. Just hoping my ship would come

in taking different measures upon myself.

L've to better myself to feel better about myself.

It didn't materialize is mid 90s, but 1995.

It was actually my wife Cheryl who said to me.

She said, Bruce, I think you suffer from depression and

surprisingly, I wasn't defensive.

I actually knowledge that that could be a problem.

Could be my illness, right? And, and, you know, provide an

answer to my what I was searching for at least to be the

cause of it. Anyway.

So you want a couple decades without even, you know, knowing

that you were depressed, you were like, you were like a ship

with no with with no root. You just no Rudder.

You you had no idea you were depressed at all.

What were some of those symptoms that you felt the like, like,

did you know that you were you felt differently than many of

the people around? You like were you aware of that

that it was different? Or did you assume that everybody

felt this way? No, I knew something was wrong.

I just knew. I didn't know what it was

depression. Wasn't talked about your that at

that time. In fact, the only Association

high or knowledge of depression. I had that was the mid-70s 1970s

by watching the movie. Wonderful, the Cuckoo's Nest

with Jack Nicholson and I certainly knew I wasn't that so

to speak. I just denied that and, you

know, and as I said, he never liked you took my parents to

open up. So, I kept it all with him.

I just felt very lonely, very isolated, and I felt.

So I guess to use another movie analogy.

There was a movie in some time ago now.

But Bruce Willis with six cents here right, where he's there

physically, but not emotionally or mentally.

And that's how I felt just very displaced and very alienated.

And and I just put on a facade and carried on like put on a

mass of the speak to Injure concealed.

But I didn't know what was wrong.

And the said it was the mid-90s that my wife first suggested

that I might be the cause. And I wasn't defensive because

in many ways, I felt like a person or an escaped prisoner

who's on the run. And he was finally captured.

And there's just such a relief to know that it's over, and

that's how I felt like. I just felt zip now, I had to

get on with life and Find a cure so to speak for the illness, but

at least I knew what I was dealing with.

Unfortunately, that wasn't to being, I spent the next 25 years

on a journey of trying to solve the depression riddle.

And that's where I am today and, and we can get into that a

little bit later too. But that's really, as, it's been

quite a journey as with the professional self-help, measures

of undertaking taken to combat the illness.

I want to, I want to That's you've set this the the table

perfectly for this next question though.

Like it's so interesting. How you got to a place of you

were sick and tired of being sick and tired.

And the idea that you were given for lack of a better term a

label. But but at the end of the day, a

name of what it was that you were feeling and finally being

able to kind of submit to that and go, okay.

And that gave you Freedom right now and I mean we're going to

get to the next 25 years because really at the end of the day

that realization LED you to the starting point.

Another starting point where to some people, oh this realization

the the weight lifted off my shoulders, you think that's

resolution but really all it is is leading you to the next.

The start of the next phase. There are guys right now who are

in that same spot that have been may be denying and I'm not You

denied it until the 90s when the, when that that that name

was given to you and that weight lifted off your shoulders, but

there are guys out there who know that they are feeling

different. That know, they're feeling off.

They know they're wearing a mask.

They've got a facade and they're still fighting the idea of

submitting to a label or submitting to a name of the

condition. Talk a little bit about before

we get into the next 25 years. Talk a little bit about the

freedom that you felt. And and and if you could tell

your younger self, if you could go back and scold your younger

self to say, hey submit to this idea.

It's going to be faster to leading to you feeling better.

Is that is that the type of Freedom that you felt when you

absolutely? I you know, I felt like the pain

would be over. So just be a matter of finding

the remedy in the mid-nineties. There're little early or not.

I believed if you recall Prozac was a wonder drug at that.

I'm sure Cutting Edge for depression treatment that was in

the folds, at that time. So I figured if I take some

Prozac, everything, be normal, you know, 20 years after the

fact, it wasn't to be. That's what my you family

doctor, prescribed and wasn't to be.

And I, that started the Journey of the next 25 years.

There was, but I wasn't disappointed or hopeless over

the over. The fact that Prozac.

Didn't work. I just assumed there would be

some combination of medications or other treatments that would

Solve the Riddle. But as I soon found out it

wasn't to be as many times. We have this idea that we can

fix something. You know, there's The Stereotype

of how we don't listen to our wives.

We just we just want to fix things when when the point is we

should just learn how to listen that stuff and don't worry about

fixing. But we have sometimes this

Fix-It mentality in our That's where we want to do that.

But at the end of the day, and I'm kind of setting the table

here for the next phase for the next 25 years.

Sometimes things are just a process and the process is the

fixing. There isn't a getting rid of

this taking a wonder drug and, and getting rid of it forever

and letting it being, you know, in the past sometimes things

like this, are our present. That's the friend that's coming

with us in the front seat whether we like it or not, and

it's a matter of learning just to deal with that.

At and manage that is that the thing is that one of the major

things that you learned over the next 25 years.

Like I know you went on a massive Journey.

I'd like you to talk about that. Talk about some of the rabbit

holes that you went down in searching for the truth that you

now know. Certainly, if I knew then what I

know now at the start of the journey, I just assumed it would

be pretty black-and-white. That I would just Prozac or

equivalent would solve the Cure or solve the problem.

I'd be down of it. Right?

But as I as, as the treatment options and self-help measures

many of them. They undertook didn't resolve

the issue. It became little more

frustrating. There's no doubt.

But if I knew then what I know now, it would have provide some

comfort down the road that it was certainly a journey and in

it wasn't in one size, fits all. But there would be kind of a Not

a happy ending but a called the ending, which frankly there has

been which I get to at the end of this podcast.

It is it's certainly interesting.

What one thing point. I do want to make Mike is you

asked about the load opening up a while ago, one or not, opening

up about accepting. It one thing that I know now

that I didn't know then In the mid-90s.

It's is there a number of men, women too?

Of course, but but but men who have suffered from depression

and is well documented. And if I had known that, then it

would have provide be little more Comfort going forward.

An example is Winston, Churchill is probably appropriate to bring

up his name. Given what's going on in Ukraine

right now? Yeah, in WWII until the u.s.

Got involved, the Britain was Essentially on their own in

fighting Germany and there's once in Churchill who sold

marred for leading the country in that other example, Jim

Carrey The zany comedian. He was on 60 Minutes some years

ago detailing his bouts with depression.

Another example. I mean, there's many of them but

Brad Pitt, I mean, what guy wouldn't want to look like Brad

Pitt, but he'll he's opened up about his bouts with depression.

If I hadn't known that, you know, back then that would have

provided me some comfort. Unfortunately.

I felt like I was very much on my own well, and I think that

that is a phenomenal marker to say, at this point here, if

there are guys who are listening to this and they know that

they're off somehow someway, maybe they even have the, the

realization that it is depression.

The fact that you are not alone is massive, and I'm so grateful

that we got to that early on. In the podcast that there are

there are many Many many guys who are dealing with this right

now. Covid has exemplified and an

exaggerated and Amplified many of these things.

We live in a society right now that is getting for many men

harder and harder to live in as it's changing so quickly.

And I mean, there's all sorts of things that the factors that can

contribute to a slipping biological, you know,

environmental issues life events that.

And you're not alone, you're not alone.

And there is a lot of people out there who have travelled down

these paths. And, and, you know, one of the

clues that gets thrown out there is that you can, you can link

arms with some of these people. Whether it is through media,

like books, like Bruce's book, whether it is through, you know,

men's groups, different things. We are definitely going to try

and create more tools with. He changed it for four, men who

are living silently. Please don't live silently.

That's not the way to get to a place of curing or managing

whatever the whatever the the end goal is dealing with it

silently is not the way to do it.

And so let's help you get proactive and that's what Bruce

is helping people do with the book.

And and when that's a great message, I appreciate hearing

that Bruce. It's interesting that you

mentioned about the loneliness. I can say unequivocally.

That's one of the the most pressing issues with with the

Russian. As you feel very alone.

You just feel like you're the only person in the world that

has depression not something. Not the case.

There's something like 280 million people worldwide, that

suffer from depression, so that you weren't alone, but it's

difficult to accept that. When you are depressed.

You just feel like it's, you're doing person knows how you feel.

And that's simply not the case. Yeah, that's an awful feeling.

And, and so, anybody who is got their eyeballs or there are

holes on this podcast. Please do that.

That, that is Definitely not the case.

And and there are there are routes to not feeling this way,

you know, Bruce before, we get to the next 25 years.

And some of the the places that you went in your quest to

managing depression, you know, Candace and her team as they

were building, he changed it. They went out and looked for

what they call pain points. That's the, you know, that's the

terminology they use as to why men's mental Wellness is in the

state that it's in right now in North America.

And Beyond that Europe as well in Australia.

And everywhere around the world. Like you said, you know, 280

million people. Oh my gosh, some of the pain

points are the ones that you did that.

You'd think, you know, family breakdowns or, you know,

childhood trauma, you know, the things that you would think are

stereotypical, but two of the top ones, you know, body image

was one and again, guys, don't talk about this stuff, but

overwhelming purpose was another and then they overwhelmingly

though. Number one was loneliness and

that's a huge thing. And if If you're lonely, well,

that can kind of suck, but if you're lonely and hurting like,

got something wrong with you, man, that is not a great place

to be. And that's why we want to

definitely encourage people to reach out to be vulnerable.

It's hard to do. But but at the end of the day,

being able to get rid of loneliness is is one of the

Silver Bullets to attacking, you know, things like this.

I want to talk about that next. 25 years you went.

A lot of rabbit holes and I don't want to put words in your

mouth, shocked about it. But you went you you went down

the conventional and The Uncanny and the unconventional roles as

to as to, how to solve this. Can you talk a little bit about

the next 25 years that led to the book Bruce you are.

I mean, it's it's it was quite a journey and, you know, 45 years

and counting is it sounds Preposterous as well.

Chamberlain staging, in the, his book that he slept with Thousand

women in. Yeah, but it's true that I'm

exaggeration is like your. Yeah, true.

But certainly, the 45 years is 45 years.

Yeah, 45 years and counting. So, the first 20 undiagnosed,

but the next 25 you say is, is when I went on this journey and

it started off with a family. Doctors, as a mentioned

prescribe Prozac. He just prescribed generically

as depression. You didn't win the types of

depression or what type, I suffered from but just that is

depression, Prozac didn't work, then escalated to other

medications that didn't work. So then he referred me to

another family. Doctor who sent me on a crusade

essentially physical checkups, including a sleep disorder

clinic. He sent me to have allergy tests

and the thyroid test was all three of those issues can mimic

the Russian. They did they didn't they're

ruled out. They didn't work the cause or

mimic depression that escalated from there, very much.

So two more medications, it's up to 20 different types of

medication. I've been on, I've lost count

actually some and isolation some augmenting, one another and then

my family doctor about time referred me to the psychiatrist

that I've seen for 20 some years now, and I've been with him and

I'll be on the journey. In fact, he's he wrote a

testimonial and my book and this is chapter devoted to him.

Dr. Chandra seen his name. Anyway, so one from medications

to he he assigned me to a therapist who have cognitive

behavioral therapy CBT. It's referred to which is a

standard procedure or treatment option in conjunction with

medications. That didn't solve.

It solve the issue. Although I understood CBT from a

rational perspective. It didn't resonate with me,

emotionally CVT is just changing your thoughts that may have

derived from growing up and the false belief systems and so

forth. Yeah, working on your

subconscious Pathways, right? This is it.

I love that stuff II a Big, Joe dispenza fan.

He talks about that. How rewiring your brain that is

all positive stuff. And again, sometimes these

medications work. Sometimes it is the thyroid.

Sometimes it is these things. It just wasn't in your Case the

CBT it lost my train of thought here, but this the CBT all I

know it reminded me of reading how to play better golf or book

on how to play better golf. You know, I know why I'm slicing

the ball when I hit the hit the off, the Fairway off the tee,

but reading the book, it doesn't.

I don't can't translate that into straightening out my slice

and that's what seems kind of Anyway, so we asked my doctor

Chan or seen it escalated from there to repetitive

transcranial. Magnetic stimulation or TMS,

which most people have never heard of but that's I went to a

Centre in Toronto and for two weeks straight.

I took time off work. And they got the setter.

They put a metal plate to get your head, is pretty kind of

crude really, and, and you're awake during the whole

procedure, but it is, it directs magnetic impulses into the brain

where the, where the depression resides.

So, I, I spent two weeks there for about an hour a day and it

was all out of pocket is I think six thousand dollars.

Yeah, oh hip and my work covers didn't didn't pay for so I think

it helps but didn't last. So that was kind of the end of

that measure. Dr. Chen or seen in an Escalade

to the dreaded, ECT electroconvulsive, therapy

therapy. Pardon shock therapy, shock

therapy. That's right.

Wow, so he so for I think most people are aware of.

It gets a bad reputation. But it is actually very

recognized worldwide treatment for depression for major

depression. Yep, but where they put you

under of Tennessee's, your cars and hook up, electrodes and then

shock you into a seizure what they do and that's kind of jolts

the depression out of you for lack of a better explanation,

but he dr. Chandler seem to stop the

treatments after a week or two because they weren't effective.

So that was the end of that option.

And all along is these are all professionals.

So to speak Journeys measures. I am gone.

They're taking and I also took a number of treatments are

measures myself. I didn't just sit on my my butt

and look for the professional measures and couple of things I

did. I read that always read that.

Read that writing our story of exercising, reduces depression.

Sure. So I took that to the extreme.

When a 38 years old. I made a New Year's resolution

after a few Pops to run a marathon.

I'm not spring. So January 1st.

I ran three kilometers and that was it, and the by quickly,

escalated their. And then by may, I ran the

Pittsburgh Marathon. Less than four hours.

Wow, and after that I ran five months, five months.

Not a runner. And and in five months, you're

so lucky. I get asked this question here

because because I think it's important to note.

Like I know the answer, but I think it's important for our

viewers and our listeners to know.

You're also living a normal right accessible in many

different peoples version of the word successful.

You're literally living a successful life while you're

doing this while you're going through this stuff.

There's No, no. No, but it was a bit of a

facade. Really.

I mean, I will take phony but I guess it was.

Yes, you're right. I had a career in the financial

world. I'm pretty well educated and and

I went to work every day and fulfilled my responsibilities

and but the the marathoning and preparing for help.

I also run the New York City marathon Chicago, marathons into

more. When I didn't, when that didn't

do it, you know, it really the depression somewhat, but it

wasn't a magic cure, so to speak.

Yeah, and then, I took up triathlon me at age, 40, never

done that before. Did three that summer and and

fairly major triathlons. And the last what the third one,

I did a month after I did. My first one was a half Ironman

Triathlon where you swim too close.

There's bike 90 km than run half and half marathon.

So I finished a gives them six half hours, but you know,

getting Extreme Measures to feel better about myself.

Did it work? Somewhat, but it wasn't, you

know, so that's yeah, that's it. I gotta talk about that.

Like, okay, so you're really unturned every stone that you

can through clinically and personally, that's what I'm

doing. Everything that you can

anecdotally, I'm sure, you know, you're trying everything to try

and get this thing licked. The quote.

One of the questions that I have is, were there, things that

would give you temporary relief. And and during those times of

temporary relief. Was it like another world?

Because I mean it's been so long since you have had relief from

this. Did you truly during any of

those times know what it was like to be relieved of

depression? Even for a little while?

Are you say no II? Definitely felt some relief, is

at the pressure had been relieved somewhat, but did I

ever feel hope normal? No, I just knew that there's

something missing, but I still trudged on, you know, I still

and people mistook my Adventures as looking for the Holy Grail

and and I wasn't I was just looking to feel better about

myself and None of the measures were particularly effective.

They weren't know. They were, you know, most people

they live their lives, you know, up here.

I was always down here to kind of below the surface of the

steel striving to get up just to where they were or wasn't trying

to get up way above. That's not it.

I just wanted to get up. There was nothing.

I really tried. I took courses.

To better myself. I obtained my accounting

designation, while it's working, taking my Certified Financial

Planning designation, and also the age 55 row of the last major

self-help measure. I obtained my MBA and those were

all self-help measures to feel better and like, you know, you

asked the question. Was there anything that

relieved? They were they help but they

certainly, you know, it might move beyond the scale of 1210

from a 4 door 5 kind of thing but working with other people

that are seven or eight on the scale, right thoroughly?

Was it was wasn't no. I I got to say this right here,

right now and I'm certainly not the first person to say this to

you. I am fucking impressive.

Your tenacity with your drive. Like, oh my God, that is that is

unbelievable. The achievement that you Have

made in the name of trying to find a way to break free of

this. There's a lot of people who just

take their ball and go home. You just say no.

Give me another ball. Let's play that one.

Let's play that one. Let's get it.

You know, let's, let's do this. So did you get to a point you've

tried all of these things? All of these drugs?

I guess one question I'm going to ask is, is there anything

that you we gotta be careful with this?

I'm just saying, anecdotally. I'm not, you know, neither of us

are doctors. There's or anything like that.

But, but at the end of the day, is there anything that that that

you would not recommend? Like are you are you if you

could do it over again, would you say?

Okay, I'm not going to try that many drugs for example, or I'm

not going to go so far down any particular rabbit hole.

Is there anything that you would would say was more ineffective?

I would say not there. Really neutral one.

I didn't mention which was Franklin's granddaddy of them.

All was about 10 years. Yeah, but 10 years ago.

I undertook the deep brain stimulation is called which is

most people are familiar obviously with the pacemaker for

the heart. We'll listen.

Research is the research candidate in in Toronto.

When the hospital's there for deep brain?

Stimulation for the brain. And what it really Essence is

pacemaker for the brain. So they drill two holes in your

head, insert two, electrodes, and then put a wire under your,

you know, skin to your heart or to your chest.

And the luck little electric impulse from the from the

battery is Opposed to, you know, that's what the the hypothesis

is is to solve the depression riddled.

So is very much an undertaking because of lacking here, on top

of my head. You can still see the bumps

where they did the surgery and unfortunately, that was not

effective. And so that was, you know,

retrospective what I went through, took through cure for

years before it was approved for the research and I was

candidate. Number one.

And what I want through and had to go to Toronto.

Let three hours from Toronto. It was just it was a huge

undertaking to no avail sulfur's one treatment.

I probably would question that for me.

Anyway, it just wasn't worth it. So, okay, you blow my mind.

Yeah, I would say that. And right now about what what

have been considered psychedelics, you know

psilocybin ketamine. All of these things.

Here you go on down those paths to yes ketamine.

It was actually on the cover of Time Magazine a couple years

ago. It was as the Most promising

breakthrough in depression treatment since I bleep Prozac.

Yeah. Well, I tried that and ketamine.

If for the viewers of, you may have heard of it because it was

a hippie drug of choice from the 60.

So it's been around for a while. Sure.

And also lately, I think it's been abused as a date-rape drug,

but it is when used medically it is been shown to be effective

for depression. So So I had that drug as well.

I'm not. No, it didn't work.

You got a good buzz on it. Buzz off at from taking the drug

because it was, it was intravenously administered right

in the, for the hour. So, great, great high, but then,

the war often, I was the end of that.

So I've been back. So that was another option of

the checked off. Okay.

So we've done a phenomenal job. In my opinion here.

We've done a phenomenal job of talking about the journey where

it started. The quest and in the things on

the journey. Now, we're on the other side of

it. You've got the book out.

What are the things that you've learned?

And I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, I'm going to a

place where we're talking about how, Okay.

This isn't a cure thing. This is a managing thing.

This is a thing that's learning how to manage is their

happiness, for the people who are suffering with this that

cannot cure, it cannot lick it. Can you on the other side of

things, say that you're living a life that you want to live with

fulfillment and all of These things and let's get to the

book. Well, it's an interesting

question because I know rationally, I done well, but I

feel like Spock from Star Trek. I just don't feel it

emotionally, but I've accepted that fact that there's, you

know, probably you'll never be quote, happy.

I just the rationale realization that I've done.

Well, I think is probably the best that I can, I can do.

But I wouldn't want to sway the others from, you know, from from

trying to The happiness, but I think I've reached my Plateau as

best. I can do the book itself, just

add, it was actually a self-help measure that I wrote the book

because I read that. If you write things that are in

your brain, so to speak, on the paper, release the depression

and it's very therapeutic. I found to do so, and then when

covid have a couple years ago, I'd you know, I thought there

might be a message out there, I could share with others,

especially what the Onset of mental health issues since

Coburg. Yeah, what led me to writing the

book but as far as happiness goes is, not sure.

But that one I I think it's just acceptance of where I am and

what I have achieved which I think has been pretty pretty

good the arm, and the whole thing is A lot of these

accomplishments like the marathons and triathlons.

If I have felt better about myself.

I wouldn't have undertaken them. Because there would have been

content with where I was. That is ironic.

That's a little bit. That's a chicken egg thing.

Every time I kept on moving back.

So I kept on, you know, I'd look for another goal.

There thing. I did in my, I'd like to travel

and so I traveled all ten provinces in Canada.

Two of the three territories. I still don't know book to

finished yet. But I also traveled to all 50 of

the United States. So, I was kind of another goal I

had. But again, once those goals are

done. I kind of the Finish Line keeps

on moving back and comes to a point where you kind of have to

accept it, but it's very difficult to do.

I am going to get you to hold up the book here in a second.

I'm interested in the title because at the end of the day,

we've set a table here, but the title is Breaking Free of

Depressions grip, a powerful success story.

So, even though you're saying, okay.

Well, yeah, I don't experience happiness.

Say the same way that other people do, you know, but the

title of the book is compelling to me because it feels like from

the title of the book. You have crossed the finish

line. And I know for a fact, you feel

that you have crossed the Finish Line.

It's just not the finish line that you had maybe envisioned

and I want to maybe talk about that a little bit.

Please hold the book up and tell us about it and And and where

can be found all of that stuff. Sure.

So that's the title are the book right there and it's pretty

emblematic. I believe the runner on top of

the mountains achieved, his goal, his or her goal.

I think it's pretty positive pretty positive statement.

But the Breaking Free of depressions grip.

Really is most people, of course, the word Breaking Free,

you know, suggest that the robotic and immediate ship.

Of from one position to the other but my case is more of a

process of breaking free. So I was able to break free of

depressions Griffin sense, the stigma attached to depression.

I felt comfortable enough. It was my own like to open up

about it a few years ago. So I broke free of that.

So that's part of the the title and in just breaking free from

how it govern me for all these years.

You know, I've accepted, I have a mental Illness, but I live

with it, cope with it manager. And, and I believed in my own

mind, have achieved, pretty, pretty positive results in my

life, with my family, with friends and my career.

So, those are all positive accomplishments are broken free.

What would otherwise have held me back with depression.

So that's really the title of the book.

That's what I believe. It's a success story that needs

to be shared. It's in inspiring to me.

And, and, you know, it's not like you don't have moments of

satisfaction or pleasure or happiness or things like that.

Your version of those things are just a little bit different than

maybe somebody who isn't, you know, and it's, and it's, and

it's the frustrating thing. What must be frustrating is that

you don't necessarily see how you're experiencing life through

media movies, things like that. It's not like it's talked about

in a positive way, very much this way here.

Even the books. Like I look there's not a lot of

men that write books like this. I'm certain you must have have

run into that when you were on your knowledge Quest as well.

So it was that something that you were aware of when you're

writing a book. I was statistically this been

proved and demonstrated any way that women are more apt to have

depression than men. I was one point six times and

that's the statistic but what they don't know is whether or

not that is really true whether or not women have depression

more or if it's simply that women were more opted to, they

talk about up, want to talk about it.

Yeah. So I it was certainly are

certainly aware of that. The most oppression books are

written by MDS or phds and if they're you know, which are men

and women. But if their therapists that

other writers The Rock and women writers aren't too many men who

opened up as I believe I have them pretty candid in the book,

but what I dealt with and I like to think it's fairly Don't take

revolutionary, but certainly Cutting Edge in the sense that

I've been so open about my what, what transpired in the last 45

years, which is kind of ironic too.

Because I'm by Nature what a private person.

But, yeah, the other, by the way, it hasn't escaped me that,

you know, a lot of people, my wife and I wrote a book and it's

a big thing. It's a big accomplishment just

to even get the thing done. This is get across each other.

The finish line. As an escape me that.

Okay. Yeah, you know, you ran

marathons, I half an Ironman, all that stuff.

Got your MBA, all these things, and wrote a book, all in the

name of, oh, maybe this will make me feel better, you know,

and but the the best part about it though, is that maybe it

didn't make you feel better. Other than that sense of

accomplishment, which you have felt in so many other ways, but

you are breaking open the damn of vulnerability, to show other

men. Men that there's hope and, and

to give to give, you know, concrete examples, of things

that can be done. Like, you went through a lot of

dark times and I kind of want to know, like, like to our to our

listeners and stuff. Let's see if there's any clues

that we can leave them. What are some of the things that

got you through the dark times that you have been through?

Because it hasn't all been about being as productive as you can

and trying to, you know, focus on that solution.

There have been some really hard times.

And there are probably three things that got me through the

dark times, what it was. I've always had pretty strong

ethics and integrity. I'm not sure.

Why, or how I got those except the ice.

I've normally assume through genetic link to my parents, but

Martin Luther King jr. Has always been one of my idols

and he had a quote, the time is always right to do, what's

right? And I always adhere to that.

I thought some comfort and living by that, even through the

dark times, that kind of got me through.

So that was the number one thing my ethics Integrity.

The second thing that got me through, we're friends when I

was growing up at our, you know, years ago and even to this day

they didn't know that I was dealing with depression and For

the longest time. I didn't know myself as we

talked about earlier, but there's some comfort that I had

friends kind of an association logic in the sense that they

were good people and they like me so that means I must be good

person. So there's always kind of not

logic there. But that kind of got me through.

And then the other, the third component is my my wife Cheryl,

we married 26 years and we have the lovely daughter Hannah,

who's in her third year? Coincidentally of Ecology in

McMaster University in Hamilton, and they've been very supportive

and rock. For me, Rock of Gibraltar, both

them. And so, those three components

really got me through the dark times to where I am now is,

let's talk about your daughter for a second here time.

Get slippery. And so we got to we got to end

it soon. First off.

I hope this isn't the last time II feel like our paths are going

to cross. Again.

You certainly have provided a lot of tools for men and we want

to we want to promote that as well and promote the book.

But I just as we get into kind of the overtime here, your

daughter is going through for psychology.

And at what point, you know, so she's in her.

She's in her 20s. I assume.

Right now. We're at what point did she

become aware that that you're going through this and you going

through this? Does that have anything to do

with the fact like the journey that you've had?

Does that have anything to do with the fact that she went into

psychology? Absolutely both counts.

She tried to shelter from her. As long as I could frankly.

I didn't want to burden her with with my challenges, but I did,

you know, talk to her probably wouldn't use mid-teens.

I suppose something like that. So she has a pretty good

understanding or did have a pretty good understanding

earlier out much earlier on what I'm dealing with and whether or

not she this was A spur for her to to go into psychology is

actually psychology with a concentration in neuroscience

and behavior. So it's very much.

Wow. It's great the same league.

So it's very much in the realm of what I'm dealing with.

And that's yes, it was a great influence.

And that's one of the reach you want to go in with the into that

area of for her career. So I hope she continues on so

that's yeah. Well.

I just another another one right there, where you you're so

inspiring Bruce and I mean, you know, to the point where you're

inspiring, you know, your own, your own kid, to do to move into

this and and and and and Achieve.

And and I just look at. I look at what you have done.

You talk about taking a negative and turn it into a positive.

You look at on paper, all of the positives that have come out of

this and and and boy, Ii-i'm. Very, very inspired about what

I'm hearing here. So thank you for for being open

to sharing that vulnerabilities. A huge thing with men.

You have like I said broken the damn of vulnerability and and

just you get seems like you live there.

I appreciate that as we kind of close up here.

My final question for you. It's almost a review but not

quite. It's sort of a sum up more than

anything. You got guys, right now that are

listening to this and some of them I'm certain are going to be

having. Holy shit moments.

Where where it's like OK, they're sick and tired of being

sick and tired. If one of those guys if you now

know that one of those guys is listening right now.

What is some of the things that you've learned that you would

like to share with them? Couple things.

I think the younger long component, the basic started is

to accept it. There's no shame in accepting

get, you know, accepting the fact that you have a physical,

almost as much as much as cancer is have diabetes or other

physical illnesses. That's what dot depression is

accept it. So then you can move on, you

know, that's number one. No, shame in it.

I want some no nevermind. So that would be the number one.

Number two would be distressed. Stay strong and remain hopeful

even though could be, you know, rocky road down down the way.

Now, I say that, you know, knowing full well, that one of

the underlying characteristics of depression is losing hope,

but you have to stay strong and remain hopeful.

And number three is be proactive.

And again, I say that knowing that one of the underlying

Symptoms of depression is giving up but remain proactive

especially in our health care System.

That's overburden notably since covid in specially, but if you

fall off the treadmill, then the doctors are just going to

continue on without you. So those are really three

things, except that remain strong and be proactive.

That is a phenomenal phenomenal advice.

Very simple, easy to And I appreciate that very, very much.

I'm going to throw a fourth one in there.

The fourth one is and I'm going to get you to.

I'm going to get it back to the screen back to you here.

After I say it, the fourth thing is pick up a copy of Bruce's

book because there is a powerful tool right there.

If you're not ready to come out to everybody about how you're

feeling or whatever. Sometimes getting some getting

some information in the head is the way to do it as well.

And we have an incredible resource Bruce if you wouldn't

mind before, I take us home. Here, could you please show the

book again? And can you please plug where to

get the book? Your social media, anything like

that? Your I know, so your speaker as

well. And so, what are the best ways

to get in contact with you regarding any of this stuff?

Sure. Thank you for us.

And let's agree. So, it's available in a couple

of different sources. Of course.

Number one is them of Amazon, right?

What isn't able to purchase through Amazon today, but that's

one place. I also have my own website, its

Bruce R. So there's an extra iron,

they're just beware. So because Bruce Ross was taken

that domain name, Bruce Ross, .c egg and has pretty good

information about my journey and you can buy the book through

there as well. And also I'm going to go on a

speaking tour soon. So one another option to get a

hold of me as my emails Roderick and my middle name Roderick fine

Scottish meaning rot or rust at gmail.com.

So that's rotter cross at gmail.com.

Love to hear from you. So that's really my plug.

But that's, that's really it. It's like what can I say?

It's a. It's a, I think it's a valuable

read. There's no, there's no

preaching. There's no judgment.

No magic. Yours simply shares.

A journey of what us like truly like from somebody who's lived

it for 45 years. Bruce.

I Can't thank you enough for taking your learning and

transferring a big fan of the transfer of knowledge.

I'm a huge fan of that. My life's purpose, I think is to

be a conduit of that. I don't know enough to transfer

any knowledge, but I can certainly help those who have

that knowledge transfer it and that's what I think my role is

with with, he changed it here. Certainly, we want to as he

changed it grows and as our influence starts to become, you

know, the goal Kandi and her team.

The goal is to become a worldwide.

Influencer and thought leader in this area, taking some of the

beautiful things that that we find along the way and, and

proclaiming them out as well. This is most certainly one of

those beautiful things Bruce. I cannot thank you enough for

being a part of this. I'm certain our paths.

We're going to cross again. Let's make sure that that

happens. Let's manifest that it happened

sooner than later. Thank you very much for your

time, man. We really appreciate it.

Thank you mug, thanks for having me on the show.

Like, give me the time to to express my views.

That's awesome. Thank you.

Very, I can't. Thank you enough.

Oh man, the gratefulness goes both ways.

You know, that's it. You know, these things I talked

about how slippery time is when we when we do, he cast.

It is the favorite time of my week.

I hope it's also becoming the favorite time of yours.

Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to watch us

or to listen to us again. Download the he changed it up.

Check it on out, search up here. Go to heat change it.com for all

the details. If you like the podcast or the

YouTube show, Please Subscribe. Please leave comments.

Please like it and do all the things, share it around, all of

that stuff, that he changed it over, Lord's, love that and they

don't give me heck. When, when people are doing

that. So, I've got a, I've got to keep

asking for that. In the meantime though.

This has been another episode of he cast the official podcast of

he changed it. My name is Mike Chisholm go

change. Something.