Scott Ryan on Depression, Stigma, and Why Men Need to Talk

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Welcome to. He cast the official podcast of

he changed it. My name is Mike Chisholm by the

way, right there, you just got a preview of Our Guest today.

Today's guest is Scott Ryan, but before we get to that unfinished

business, if you haven't downloaded the, he changed it

app. What the heck are you waiting

for? Download it, technically that

bad. Boy is still in beta but it's

already effective. As a lot of guys who keep

reaching out saying, thank you so much for the resources.

Thank you so much the community starting to grow.

I think that it's pretty obvious what the app is going to be and

what it's turning into. Lots of cool things coming.

I sound like a broken record when I say that but I'm married

to the founder candy and her team are doing so many neat

things and I get to see it firsthand but I also get the

easy job of just hosting the podcast while they do.

The heavy lifting but he changed it Community is growing, check

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the info. Also, if you wouldn't mind

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Thank you very much for all of the support that you've given.

He changed it so far, you know, like Like candy keeps hearing

from from from folks who are advising on on this company and

its growing. You know, it's not necessarily

low-hanging fruit, but the orchards are full of men out

there, who just need a little bit of a helping hand.

She's calling it. And she her shorthand for.

It is prevention in your pocket, but at the end of the day,

there's a lot of guys right now who are connecting in the area

of mental Wellness, in all sorts of facets, today's facet is

going to A continuation of a recent podcast that we had with

Bruce Ross. If you remember, Bruce Rossi,

battled depression and has for 45 years, and he talked about

his journey. We are going to talk to another

friend of the show, who has battled depression, Scott and I

have talked about him coming on and talking about this for a

while now. There's a perfect opportunity to

do it because we're also going to do it.

Coinciding lie with the release of his new book.

Author Scott, Ryan has released all It's of amazing books to do

with the tell with television universes.

His book on 30-something, his book on Moonlighting which he

was already on here as a guest. And of course my favorite of his

the the last days of Letterman Scott is man.

I I'm going to say gigantic in the Twin Peaks community.

And if you know the show Twin Peaks cult show from the 90s

revolutionary, King television that has spanned decades,

really? Because a couple of years ago,

Twin Peaks the return was filmed on Showtime phenomenal book end

to the series in the 90s. Continuation, Scott has been

part of that community and a big part of that community.

In the fan fests and different things.

He wrote a book, fire walk with me, your Laura disappeared.

This is a deep dive into To the big screen adaptation of Twin

Peaks the prequel to The 90 series fire.

Walk with me was David Lynch's, man.

I don't even know how you want to say it.

I cure all of his films are curious and unique.

This one here, as a prequel to the series, very complex, lots

of very complex ideas. Lots of themes, that are what

some would say, taboo to talk. About and at the end of the day,

Scott wrote a book that goes in and does a deep dive about it

but it coincides with his own life in that book talking about

the the show's Legend Laura Palmer.

He goes in and makes it autobiographical in many ways

and he really shared a lot of himself in this book and what

came out is how he personally He battled depression and how this

movie helped him deal with that. And as he and I were talking

about it, he reached out to me and he said, hey look, I would

love to come on your men's mental Wellness podcast and talk

about depression. And I'm like, well, the lineup

of people who want to talk about depression is long, but Scott,

Ryan you feel free. Come on in.

You want to talk about depression?

Let's do it, man. Scott, welcome back to the show.

My friend, thank you so much. I'm Sort of embarrassed to be

here today because when you said we were going to talk about

pocket prevention, I thought it was a completely different

subject and the pocket prevention.

I had in high school that that really saved my life.

I think would have put me on a different path.

That's right. My friend.

Lots of other lives to were saved.

So now after really Rethink what?

We're here to talk about today. But thank you so much for having

me. I appreciate that.

It's, I love you, man. And, and I'm so glad that you're

here before we get to the the main subject of why you're here.

I got to say this as far as Twin Peaks books, go and and and and

different things. You've got the official stuff,

Laura, Palmer's, diary and things that came out officially

Got to put this at the top of the pile of Twin Peaks

commentary material. This is a phenomenal book.

If you know, if any of our any two or three of our listeners or

viewers come there, Noah Twin Peaks fan get them.

This book, Scott Ryan Productions Fayetteville, Mafia

press, you know, fire walk with me your Laura disappeared.

Oh my God, this is a phenomenal phenomenal book.

Clearly you wrote It from your heart.

But you also very much use your mind and the minds of many other

Twin Peaks experts out there. How long did it take you to

write this book? Um, this was a very strange book

for me in that I did it in different sections and that is

the first time I've done that, I really was working on

Moonlighting while I was working on this book and I would go back

and forth and I would do some interviews for both and it was

kind of a strange thing because I have this deadline of the 30th

anniversary of fire walk with me that was coming up so whereas my

other books I didn't really have like a specific deadline that

they had to come out, but this one had to come out in 2022 to

beat the 30th. So I think it probably took me 6

months but I think I probably worked on it for a year and a

half because I was getting interviews and going back and

forth. It was a little strange and

honestly, the book would be completely Lee different if I

worked on it. Today, I sort of just wrote what

I was feeling that day and stories would just pop out at

me. What I was going to call this

book is a movie Memoir because to me that's what it is.

This is yes. It's about fire.

Walk with me. Of course it is but it really

isn't like it has nothing really to do with the movie at all.

Kind of like I don't really get into it.

The movies about really, I mean, it's more how I carried this

movie with me for 30 years in my chapters, that I'm writing.

And then I interviewed the people who made the movie.

Yeah, it I appreciate where you're coming from.

When you say, you know, your you were writing about how you were

feeling that day I would submit. Maybe you were also writing how

you felt over the last 30 years as well.

Like this is, this was this was probably a pot that was On, you

know, simmer for a long, long, long time because you were

pulling out all sorts of memories, you know, all my

favorite albums right now are turning 30 years old, and a

bunch of my favorite movies are turning 30 years old fire walk

with me being one of them. You know, you, there's a long

Rich history that you had that is very evident in this book.

Well, it's always weird when someone asks, what's your

favorite movie? And I rarely give Answer fire

walk with me because it's a weird movie to be your favorite

movie. Like, why is this your face?

Like, what is that saying about you?

I mean, it's definitely the movie.

I've seen the most in my life barring, The Little Mermaid,

which played non-stop at the video store that I worked at in

the 90s. But I mean, as far as me

choosing to actually sit down and watch fire walk with me, is

the movie I've seen. The most and it's because I

don't know, like, if you aren't feeling great about yourself,

it's a good place to sit. It's a nice.

You know, I mean, it's a horrible movie as far as topic.

Sure. Maybe, you know, it's the worst

topic of any movie ever. Yeah, but I wouldn't say that.

That is what the ending is. To me, it has a beautiful If all

positive ending and so that cathartic experience that you

get from fire, walk with me, I mean I can't think of another

movie that's like it. I really can't that you had that

really puts you through the wringer but you come out feeling

like there is hope. I think that's a beautiful way

of looking at it, a really, really hard journey to get to

the hope. And I think that that's where a

lot of guys are right now. There's a lot of guys who have

Silently battled whatever demons they might be badly and might be

depression and might be addiction.

It might be, you know, not not living their true life, living a

different life. Being I mean, I know we've

talked about we talked about this in the last podcast you

were here. It's worth reiterating,

certainly worth reiterating. You talked about it in the book.

You had this fear going through your college Years and beyond

that you were going to be stuck in a cubicle and ironically

that's what You got stuck in a cubicle and it was every bit the

hell you thought it was going to be, You Broke Free of that.

You know, you talk about that in this book.

There's so many men that are going through this the topics

he's talking about by the way, everybody if you haven't watch,

Twin peaks' Twin Peaks, is this amazing.

Quirky piece of art television brilliant Series in the

nineties, about a gal, the in the first episode in a high

school in a small Washington, State town, a girl is murdered

and and the series unravels and then as it starts to unravel who

killed Laura Palmer was the. The the Mantra was the the

headline 30 years ago who killed Laura Palmer was everywhere.

Some of our listeners or viewers might remember that and then the

movie comes out and the movie shows Laura Palmer's, life just

before she passed away and it wasn't good.

There were some really Hard things in there.

There was sexual abuse, there was incest, there was

psychological torment, there was a supernatural torment.

There was all sorts of these things that were happening to

poor. Laura and and and you know this

is these are the themes that Scott's talking about and I love

how art many times and I think there's a clue here you said,

Scott that this is a good movie. If you weren't feeling right

about things, whatever this is a good movie to sit with.

It's relatable, right? Art.

Is that the thing with art is that we can kind of relate to it

a little bit here and it helps unlock maybe what we're feeling.

Well, I would submit that it is art with spaces that allows you

to set with it. And that to me is the difference

between a David Lynch film, and let's just call it not a David

Lynch film because I don't even know, you know, like, there's

kind of no one like, David Lynch that This, but he could care

less if you understand what's going on.

That is of no interest to him. He his feelings about you are

really low, like he doesn't care.

What about you? And in art, that's a really good

thing, because what he's doing is he's only thinking of the

story. He wants to tell and he's not

worrying if you're going to get it.

And even better, he's not worrying.

If your Mom's going to get it or your aunt.

He's just going to tell the story and in doing so there are

so many pieces that you have to put in.

So you get out of fire, walk with me or Lost Highway or

Mulholland. Drive, what you put in to it and

in the movie, I'm sorry. In the book, I talk about that.

I saw the movie, the day, it opened in a very small town in

Ohio and it Was to me, the just like crazy that this movie came

to Little Old Canton, Ohio. You know, I mean, just like

what? And, you know, there was pretty

much nobody there. I mean, there might have been 26

people there on opening night Friday night.

So, you know, I was there with the people that I was

surrounding myself with at that point in my life.

And they all hated it. Sure, they hate it, they

thought. No, there was no doughnuts.

You know, where was the coffee? Where's the humor?

What if this wasn't, what I signed up for?

And they just really hated that. Well, I was like rocked to my

core because I had felt like someone looked in at me and just

threw it right there up on the screen and showed everyone.

And of course, everyone hated what they saw, which is really

what you makes, you feel real good about yourself and you're

like, oh my gosh. I think that's movie is just me

and, you know, like critics hated it.

Everyone hated it. Um, and I wouldn't say that I

loved it. Like, you know, I was quiet.

We all went out and stood in the parking lot and everyone bitched

about it. I just was quiet.

I went back to see it, three days later by myself, in the

afternoon. Like, I snuck away to try to see

this movie again, and I saw it, and again, it was probably the

second time that I really could focus on Sheryl Lee, and that

mattered more to me than the plot.

It was the actress who played Laura Palmer.

Why did her cries seem real like she cried with her whole body?

Torment was everything about her in her eyes and no one could see

that she was tormented. No one could see this.

Everywhere she goes, she's the homecoming.

Queen, everyone loves her, you know?

And critics. It's so funny how people view of

piece of art that is really good because they were like, well,

this is dumb, everybody saw this, they should have known.

What was happening. Yeah.

Yeah. That was the point you dumbass,

you hated the movie, but the exact reason that it's Great

like yeah in front of everyone, she is drowning and nobody sees

this and then of course she dies at the end of the movie, that's

not a spoiler because she's dead at the beginning of Twin Peaks

and you know, that's coming which is another thing like

it's, you know, I always say like if you have depressive

Tendencies, oh a happy ending where the main character dies?

Like dial me up man. Now we're talking about right

where I want to sit like yeah. Give me a happy ending where

they died. So I sort of kept that with me

you know and what I would do is every year on my birthday.

I watched fire walk with me through my early 20s, which is

probably not what you should do. I mean that's not what you

should be doing on your birthday but it was like my thing to do.

It's like I'm gonna do my fire walk with me watch and it all

had to do. Do with like studying again,

Laura Palmer's, not real, I don't consider myself to be

Laura Palmer where I was never sexually abused.

And I don't, I don't relate with that.

So many women. Do they go to Laura for that?

And she is a great. She's like an icon for women who

have been sexually abused because she takes control of

what's happening to her. And I mean, you could debate

about it and 20, Fans do but in my opinion she does win in the

end and and you know takes gets control back of her life.

I mean she dies but that's neither here nor there but I

don't know. That's it was Cheryl.

Leave that as an artist. It was her art that I kept

looking at. And why can't I do that?

And why can't I say who I really am to people and But instead, I

would hide it with comedy with jokes, the smiley face that I

put out there as that person and even though I'm not doing what I

should be doing, you know, nobody noticed.

Nobody cared. Yeah.

And so that was a place for me to really sit in through all

those years. I, I'm glad you brought up

sherilee. We're going to get to her.

And actually, you know what, talking in the book about until

you know your book culminates. With an interview with with with

Sheryl Lee and and this is an interview that isn't just you

meeting her for the first time, this is after you guys have you

to have established, a beautiful, Rapport and

friendship and for you a dream come true, you know, kind of a

kind of a situation where you've become friends with her and and

then you have an interview with her that's that's near the end

of the book. But going through the book

though, talking about, yes, you talk about some of the different

plot points you talk about some of the different tie.

Ins hidden meanings and then behind the scenes stuff.

But as that's happening, is a narrative that's building where

you talk about Cheryl's performance, as Laura Palmer in

this movie. And there are cast, there are

crew who are talking about Cheryl's mental state during

filming, all those years ago and how there were people who are

really legitimately concerned for her.

And and you talked about this performance, that's on screen

that that you were able to 100% relate to and and and see that.

And and during filming, people were concerned about her, and

that's how real the performance is its somebody who is going

through that right in front of you.

And they're burying it for everybody.

And it's timeless it. You've watched that movie every

year since since it came out like on your birthday like it's

still in the hive up like crazy but what it does hold up and no

II haven't. I don't do that anymore.

I don't watch it on my birthday anymore.

I haven't, I probably haven't done that since my 20s because

once I had kids, you know, your birthday becomes about them at

you. Yep.

And then by the time, The kids are out on their own.

I'm in a different point in my life where I'm actually not not

who I should be now, right? You know, like, there's a

different spot so and actually, that's there's many reasons.

The book is called your Laura disappeared.

Comically. A lot of people think it's

plot-based because in the new Twin Peaks, they do a thing that

maybe Laura did disappear. And I was like, oh my God.

I was even thinking about that, like, if it has to do with me, I

mean, in one way, Way. My Laura has disappeared because

I I met Sheryl Lee and so Laura Palmer at that icon in the

homecoming picture is gone. So the last time I saw fire walk

with me was after I had spent some time with Cheryl probably

like four different times and now the movies completely

different to me like because I know she'll Are all and I know

Ray Wise and they're actors to me now.

So my Laura has really disappeared.

It's really hard for me to lose myself in the film anymore.

To be honest. I know that everybody wants to,

you know, like if I was a real performer, I'd lie.

And say it still means the same to me but it doesn't, it's

disappeared because You know, I get it now.

It was a mystery to me, I didn't understand how she was Creating

this thing I've never seen on film.

Now that I know her, it's not a mystery to me, that's who she

is. Okay.

That being said to go back to that previous point the, your

friend Sheryl Lee, who filmed this movie.

That there are people out there who say it's the greatest

performance by a female actor in history.

There's a, there's people who have submitted that that she

was. So, Deep into that role and and

what was asked of her what she gave what was asked of her and

more and more and more and more. So your friend Cheryl still went

through a lot of shit when she made that movie.

Definitely and this is me talking.

I've never asked Cheryl this shows, never said this, I'm not

giving away a confidence. This is me just completely

talking out of my ass. Okay, I believe she has PTSD

from the filming of that movie. Even to this day, I think it did

affect her and has affected her every day of our life.

Because that's literally Early how much she gave to this role

because if that, you know, she put herself in at that much and

I could see someone shrugging their shoulders and thinking.

Come on it's just a job and I think that could be true for

many actors but that is in Cheryl like I've spent time with

her. She's that way about her coffee

or about you telling her a story about anything like she really

is in with you. You your mesmerised by her and

it's not just me. Who says that you could find

thousands of people who have met her and they would say that and

she's had to carry this. Thing about being an icon for

Abused Women and so many women are sharing with her there.

Honest-to-goodness true stories wherever she goes and you got to

take that all the time and I just can't imagine taking that

in everywhere you go. She's just an incredible person

to Me. Maybe the most incredible

person. Well, you know, and I, I don't,

I can't diagnose PTSD. But when you, when you read the

interview with her at the end of the book, And she's talking

about this time in her life where she was in her 20s, early

20s and she was 23. When the she filmed fire, walk

with me you know still trying to figure things out.

She's working with world-class actors with, you know, arguably

one of the greatest otters. I don't know if I'm even using

that word, right? But David Lynch is certainly is

one of the greatest directors that we've ever seen, you know,

and she's trying to figure out All that out while diving into a

role that has all of these really difficult things like you

say. Since that movie has come out

she is a beacon or a, you know, certainly a light in the dark

for people who have gone through this.

And you yourself at the same time, you know, the reflection

of the stuff you were going through silently and seeing this

on film, I mean, certainly it's evolved her as to where she's at

right now. If you read that interview I

don't know if it's PTSD or not, but it certainly has made its

imprint. You never the same.

After some of these experiences. I want to I want to talk about

chapter 11, a little bit of this book because there's a want to

read a little bit out of it. Because you get really raw and

you get really vulnerable and we've talked about being raw and

vulnerable before. But I want to I want to go

through and talk about Scott and his 20s versus Scott and his

40s. Now with all the different

societies. It's 50s.

It's okay 50s buddy. Yeah I think I'm 52 it changes

every year so right, I'm not sure.

Okay, your fifties. Now, for those of you who know

me in person or from my online Persona right here, okay?

For those of you who know me in person over my online Persona,

it might come as a shock to you that I battle chronic

depression. I've spent the majority of my

life putting on a happy face, and entertaining strangers

because of my inability to experience joy for myself.

That is a heavy admission when you wrote that was it were you

in the zone and just writing and writing and you're like yeah

this is what's naturally going to come out or was there like

writing writing writing a pause? Alright am I going to go down?

Okay, yeah, I guess I'm going down here like like when you

wrote that and you admitted that was that impactful for you or

have you done it so much in the in the maybe, the more recent

past? That it was very Easy for you to

talk about that. Its water.

It's a path. You've gone down if I remember

correctly. That's in the first paragraph.

That's yeah, that's right. Begin chapter 11.

Yeah, I mean that's it's interesting because good writer

would have put that at the end, okay?

But see I don't want to tell that.

So that it's funny that you read that sentence because I tried to

hide that sentence because I Didn't really want to say it.

So I said it early and then I talked about other things right,

you know, because I don't really want to, but I, when I I knew I

had to write this chapter because I have loved fire walk

with me forever. And I've, you know, people knew

that I did and they also knew that I had a love for sherilee,

but over time, I could see that people thought that the way that

I felt about Sheryl Lee was like how you know a teenager in the

80s might have felt about Madonna Like I was in love with

her or you know I wanted to marry Sheryl Lee or something

like that. I mostly because I always say I

want to marry sherilee when I'm on that could be where the

confusion came about but really it wasn't true.

It's not that I don't think she's beautiful and she's one of

like, my favorite actors. But, you know, it was more than

that. there was and I thought look, if you're going to do this

book You have to tell the truth or otherwise.

Why am I doing this? Why, why am I picking this movie

and talking about it? Well, I have to be honest and

say that, you know, Laura Palmer, cannot experience joy

and that's why she, you know, does the Meals on Wheels and

teaches Johnny English? And or I guess Josie English and

teaches Johnny school and does she all she does is give Yep.

Because she has a black hole on herself because she's been

sexually abused. And she was an early teen and I

mean, I had to just be honest and tell a part of the reason

that I'm the comedian. I am not all of the reason

because I was I just was born that way, but a lot of it has to

do with that. I cannot feel those things.

So why not give them, it's easier for me to give them out

because I do not experience them.

I think it's interesting that you talk, like you are, you are

so much the Twin Peaks Aficionado and and you have a

Amazing. You know, critical thinking

mind, that's able to take pieces and discern and to and to make

leaps and conjectures in just in looking at the art, you know,

just like a Star Wars fan, many times has an encyclopedia

knowledge of droid names and things like that.

You you, you didn't have to write that Scott like you, you

could have easily faked it without going into the A

autobiographical nature like you're that much of an expert,

but the movie intertwined itself with your heart so much and it

did have this impact with you. I'm going to say this flat out

because a lot of guys who are listening to this right now that

are battling depression or or don't even know that they're

battling depression, they just know something's wrong and they

haven't diagnosed it or had it diagnosed or they don't like the

word. You could have faked it.

You could have glossed over it, the way that so many of us gloss

over these feelings that are inside of us, but you didn't,

you, you came out and you talked about it, I want to ask about

the joy and and, and, and is that finite the idea that you

don't experience joy. And so you want to put Joy on

other people and all that, is that something that is a 100%

constant for you or have there been windows or times before

during Since you know, um I mean I don't know if I could answer

that as far as how would I know sure because I don't know what

other people experience. But true enough.

I mean, I would say it's true enough that I just don't.

That isn't where I sit, you know, like, I don't know.

That's just not where I come from.

That's not what I'm about. So, it's hard for me to really

know. No, I'm I mean because there's a

difference between having fun. I have fun every day.

You know, I am not a sad person. You you would not see me be a

sad person. That is not, that is not wearing

my gear is, but do I feel like I guess part of the other thing

is, I could see how simple it would be for someone.

Like I said, when you keep saying that I'm a Twin Peaks

Aficionado and I know all this stuff like that just doesn't

sound right to me. But, I mean, I guess it is true.

I do know a lot about Twin Peaks but I didn't want someone at

home. That's weird.

Why would I say at home? Because to me it's a TV show,

but it's really a book about the thing.

But you know, I didn't want someone to go like, oh what is

this guy? I mean, he gets to talk to Mark

Frost and Sheryl Lee and you know, all these actors.

And he don't know nothing about being depressed or he doesn't

know that's bull. He's got everything and it's

like I worked so hard every day to get Here, I don't have

anything like I've been giving nothing.

There's not one thing that I really have.

It's been things that I have clawed and begged and scrapes to

get out of I mean and that was sort of the point of that

chapter to say because the book so many people, get the book.

And then they said, I mean, I skipped right to the sherilee

interview and then you think yeah, you missed the point of

the book because you really want to You're rolling to that.

That's why it's the end. Oh yeah, it builds.

If you absolutely you want to get there and before you can get

there, I had to take you back because I do talk about seeing

the movie in the first chapter, but I'm not exactly honest about

saying it. I, I sort of just set that

thing, but I don't really say how where I was.

Yes, but it was more like, I felt like I had to be honest to

that, idiot. That 22 year-old Scott who I

abhor so much, like I can't stand that guy.

I mean, he needed to know like it's going to get there and I

could have got there that day. I mean, had I why didn't I say?

I love the movie. I thought it was great.

I think she's telling us all something there.

Like y'all missed it, and why don't I start writing been?

Why didn't I say? I'm actually going to find

sherilee, like, I'm gonna find her.

You know what, I just heard Dave has takes interns Like, I'm

gonna go to New York City, and being interned.

Yep. With Dave, because I can do all

these things. Like, look what she just did,

but it wasn't in me at that time.

I didn't have that like, the person, you know, today there's

not anything of that person here I wasn't, you know, I had to go

through so much to get here and I don't go into all that in the

book because it is a Twin Peaks book.

Like so I immediately liked I have that sentence and then I

don't really go back there very much because I didn't want to

overshare because I am Gen X. And you know, we don't like that

sentence was enough. And then I just tell the story

of yeah, I was so fearful being a cubicle and I was there, and

I've told the story here before. So who cares?

But it's worth repeating? No, no, because you were there,

but, you know, and we do wish that we could.

That that, that that wand and and the the the angel dust him,

throw it back on on to us at that age to say, wake up but

it's really a progression and growth to get us to that place.

And you did go through darker times with the tools.

By the way, to help at least sit with it, this movie being one of

them, you know, you went through these darker times and these

realizations, you know, you did get thrown into the cubicle and

then suddenly Break Free. And Claw your way to living the

life that you want to live, that leads to genuine fulfillment and

it's more than the paint-by-numbers situation that

we're taught to strive for. Its you actually doing the

introspective work and and the admission, I'm not happy.

And I'm going to do what I can even though I may not feel Joy

the way others feel Joy, because it looks like they're feeling

different things that I feel, but I'm not happy.

So, I'm going to work my ass off.

To get to a place where I can just realize, oh, it's just a

mindset. If I chew if I wanted to, I

could just choose to walk in the other direction but it takes a

lot of work to get to that. Truth, doesn't it?

Well, it does. And you know one of the things

I've been dreading this podcast all morning.

I just did not want to do this at all.

I kept hoping you'd have a horrific accidents and we

wouldn't have to do this. But damn it, you were safe

yesterday, but one of the things I was thinking that I wanted to

be sure that I say it's me. I don't blame my parents.

This isn't about my parents. This isn't about my friends.

This isn't about. You know, any exes I had that's

bullshit. This is about me, it was who I

was then you know, it is true. No one ever said to me, you're

majoring in business. Thank you should be a writer

like your you've already written, like, for movies and

two novels, and you're doing what, you know, because I was

already making stuff as a kid. Yeah.

No. One ever said that to me.

And who knows what that would have, if that would have helped.

But I don't think it was, I was truly shy and I just didn't have

what I have now. I mean it's like when the time

came And of course any opportunity that comes my way

man. I'm on it.

And that's the thing like Yesterday, I interviewed

Patricia Arquette. Yeah, that's huge.

That's the biggest get I've ever got my first Oscar winner.

Yeah. And, you know, it always amazes

me how people take it, like, well, of course, gots.

Interviewing Patricia Arquette was like, no, you know, how hard

that is for? Someone as small as me to get to

someone like her, like, it's impossible and like even she

doesn't realize it. And we had a great talk because

she's used to talking To people who don't care.

And so she got what I give someone, when I interviewed

them. Which is that warmth?

Yep. We're just like you.

Do you create the space where I can tell things that?

I'll regret sure as hell. Never listen to this my whole

life and but also I did play with her and made her laugh and

so she was comfortable and things like that.

But you better believe she wanted to see some of my books

after its Eye Center Moonlighting and Walk with me

but I put a note in it and I said, like, you know, I'm a

small business. I struggle to get by if you

enjoy either of these books and you feel comfortable and

tweeting a picture out or instagramming it really make a

difference to me. Yeah, that little thing right

there. That 22 year old sitting in the

dark and fireworks me he didn't have that I was going to say how

much growth did it take to ask this your first Oscar winner.

Okay, so big deal. Right.

How much growth did it take for you to be able to write that

sentence? Could you please, or would you

please? Or would you mind, you know,

asking for that help. And that's where so many men are

right now, is, is it that place of vulnerability is

vulnerability is the short way out of where they're feeling

right now, but it's like lifting 10,000 tons.

It might as well be like trying to open a vault door.

It's unlocked. But what we bring to it and the

thoughts that we put at the, you know, the armor that we put on,

won't let us get through that short distance.

And this is where your message is so damn important.

Because like you say you could have gone back to that, 22

year-old, if you could have snap the fingers and showed that

realization, holy that is a big piece of light but it took, you

know, a couple decades of growth the whole bunch of books where

you battle imposter syndrome, you're battling All these

things. Plus you know the depression

stuff I want to leverage the fact you talk about this, here

is what I don't remember. If I put this in that chapter I

don't remember if I did or not, but back then, you know like I

went to college and major in business because that's what my

dad wanted me to do. Yeah.

And I did it. So I did what I was supposed to

do and really nobody cared what? I did, no one was interested in

me and no one cared what I did. There came a point where I said

I'm just going to do what I want and I'm gonna say what I want.

And you know what, no one cared what I did.

And no one was interested in what I did.

And once that realization came to me and that is what I always

tell people. I've lived life both ways, I've

lived it for everyone else and I've lived it for me.

And to be Sweetie had no one gave a shit about me either way.

They don't no one cares about you and accepting that no one

cares about you. In fact, I have a title.

If I ever write a autobiography or way to live a life, the title

of my book is going to be your not important and neither are

you because it needs to be said twice, because that is the key.

Like, I don't matter, my little thoughts, like, Patricia

Arquette is not going to get that letter.

And think a thing about me asking her to tweet it, I mean,

she's either going to first of all, she may not even get it,

it's going to her agent and her agent other people's books and

he may throw them right in the trash can.

But she might read Moonlighting and be like, wow, this is good.

I kind of like this guy. It was look a book.

She might take a picture of it now because it's in her head but

she's not going to think about it.

Yeah, he's not going to care. It's not Change our interview,

she's not thinking about me today.

And realizing I didn't matter is what made me matter that is a

profound thought. And there are a lot of guys out

there who are taking themselves and their situation.

I'm going to be very careful how I say this.

They're taking themselves too, seriously, almost there that

they need to. They need to have their adding

extra weight onto their shoulders for no reason.

When at the end of the day, they could just shrug off that weight

in that the freedom in that statement that you just made

isn't is incredible. We think that we matter more

than we do to the people around us and all that.

But at the end of the day we can let a lot of that go.

If we even just choose to like sometimes it's that simple.

Isn't it right? Yeah.

I really think that's the truth and it sounds and I get that

when you're in it and that's the thing like When I wasn't

creating, the Depression was humongous, it hangs on you and

it's hard to start something out when you are creating in like

now, because I got that interview and then it led me to

other interviews. Now my next book is going to be

on Lost Highway and I didn't know I was going to do this and

things lead to another thing. Yep.

Because you get in, you don't get those opportunities when

you're scared and you're You're for, and you're hiding, and

you're shy and I get that like, I don't know if someone was

listening for them to say again, that guy doesn't understand, but

I can't, I don't really know, sherilee like we've met.

Let's say five times and I suppose I could call her today

if I really wanted to. But and then what, like it

doesn't really change your life. It just gives you a bit of

confidence. She's not like coming over for

dinner and you know, we're watching room Runs the Seinfeld

or something like, although she should, that would be great.

I think she'd have a good time but it's just like the same like

with the Dave people or whatever like meeting these people and

you know hearing Brian Ted has story is the one that really

hits me because he just did what I should have done.

And yeah we're about the same age and he just went to New York

and he was like I'm gonna I love Dave.

I'm gonna work for Dave. I never would have had It's not

like I have it and I didn't try. I didn't know you could just go

to New York. Yeah.

And Beyond and start working for days.

Yep. I mean, of course, I should have

done it. That's what I wouldn't work for

the guys out there who don't think they could write a book,

or paint a picture or, or write a song or learn an instrument

or, or whatever. The thing that they want to do,

that just seems like the boulder that's impossible to push up the

hill. It's actually not impossible.

You know, we can go and do anything sometimes.

We just don't give ourselves permission to do it.

Ryan Tedder you talk about that had no baggage in that

department and said, oh yeah, yeah, sure.

I'm going to go become an internet Letterman and and start

moving. Always up my way up in his

company. And then when let it retires,

I'm going to go over to the view and be the executive producer

and accept the enemy and at like holy shit, really?

You can just do that. Yes, you can just do that and

and you know for guys who are, you know, there are a couple of

kids or a wife. A job and a career in to where

they're at. I'm not saying you can unpack it

that day but you can start building things on the side that

day and start making, you know, plans and preparations and

dreams and aspirations. And you you say them out loud

and say them to a person or to and boy, it's surprising.

Sometimes how quickly those Boulders start rolling and

you're like, oh man, and you're starting to Live Life in Color,

whatever that looks like for you.

When I was 22, I was working at a video store and this girl

transferred over from another store to work for one night.

I did not know who she was. I've never met her before me and

her are closing. She was probably two years

younger than me because she had just started college.

And I think I was in college and I said, oh, where do you go to

college to Bowling Green? I said, what are you going to

college for? And she said, Movie editing and

I said, oh my gosh, I want to be a director.

And then I was and then she like walked she's like cool walk past

me with some videos and I just sat there.

I've never said that out loud to also human.

Oh wow! And I just it came right out of

my mouth and, you know, I didn't follow it up.

I shoved it back in. I was like, why did I tell

someone that? And that girl, never worked

there again. Did I ever see that girl again,

I never did. You know what I mean?

Like she just was there for one night.

We part talk about movies all night and And I went back to

doing homework on accounting and stuff that I knew, and I never

did get a job in any of that. Like, I graduated college and

did not do that because I couldn't like, can you imagine

me doing numbers all day or something like it was?

I can't do it. That isn't who I am?

No, but it was something how it came out of my mouth because

I've never met anyone. I couldn't believe you're going

to college to edit movies, like what?

And I would love to know. I don't even know who that

girl's name is. I really don't.

It's like one of those people that flashes in and out of your

life. Yep.

What is she doing today? Is she a movie editor?

Who knows? Maybe she's mom and she's happy

and never worked in movies at all.

Or maybe she is an Oscar winner to.

I mean, I wouldn't. Yeah.

There's one other thing. I want to make sure we touch on

before. For we finish this.

So you know, forgive the if it's an indelicate segue and

indelicate segue, by the way, should be a have something.

I don't know. It's grammatically, I don't

think it's right indelicate now I think it's an x-ray so it fits

you perfectly anyway. Yeah.

There we go. Perfect.

Yeah there's the name of my autobiography.

Yeah, right there. I want to talk because you know

you're going through this in your 20s.

The Is that you have now in your early 50s light years past what

you realize back then and how you know, yourself and your

introspection. Yep you met a partner, you made

a life partner. Did does your does your wife

know or did she know what the time that you experience these

bouts these ups and downs or these, you know, you might

experience, Joy differently, did she know that instinctively at

the Um, I don't know. I'm sure she didn't and you

know, she is like every single good thing that has happened to

me has happened to me since I met her and I believe it's was

because she has never told me now.

I mean, when I said, I think I want to start a magazine about

Twin Peaks because it's coming back and choose the kill you.

Should I think you could do that and If I want to, I think I'm

going to make this movie about about this person and she was

like, yeah, we could do that. And you know, I'm gonna, I

thought I am gonna contact the thirtysomething people.

I mean, she never says, I can't do something and I never had

that before. And so it's hard for me to

separate the two, was it that I got older and I was just ready.

I finally grew into who I should be.

Or was it having someone that just said?

Yep. Yep, you can do it.

We'll make it work and I'll help you.

But when she met me we met at that corporate job and I had

sort of literally go Mall life the whole my whole life.

I've lived a small light. I was a stay-at-home dad, I

never went out into the world. I just avoided everything

because I didn't want to be in that cubicle, but then,

Situation became situation. I had to get a job.

And I went into this place a phone center, and what I found

out was and I'm sorry to say this, I don't mean to be a gift

egotistical, but that the masses at the corporation, the workers

loved me did that? I was hilarious.

I was entertaining from my cubicle telling jokes because I

had an audience and I had been packed in for 15 years.

And so, He sort of, she would come down the hall, my not the

hallway, whatever cubicle way is, and say, I'm having a bad

day. Make me laugh.

And I would tell her jokes, then she would leave.

And then all the other, she was a supervisor and all the other

employees were looking around and she likes you.

Wow. Analysts to here.

Dammit! Yep.

And so that's sort of help to just because I had an audience

for the first time and then I thought, well, maybe I do have a

voice. Like it up to this point.

I thought I didn't have a voice that was worth sharing and all

those steps sort of help. Now, it wasn't working at that.

The higher-ups at that company. Hated me because I also was that

funny in meetings and, you know, the phone to customers is right.

Well yes, I mean just causing Havoc everywhere.

I went. Yep.

And I could feel this wasn't going to work out in the long

run but so yeah. Jen, I would, I don't, I can't

say, I can't imagine, I would have made it well, and you bring

her up in the book, which is why I felt comfortable enough to

break. We don't do a pre-interview

folks. Surprisingly, we don't do a pre,

we just do in delicate transitions.

That's that's exactly like it's a very similar, you know,

glowing set of compliments to her about that, by the way.

You know, in a moment of your greatest hell being in a cubicle

office environment which is not you clearly not.

You I think it's very evident through the conversations that

we've had to everybody that that's just not you you know

horrible horrible situation you ended up pulling an angel out of

hell you know you ended up getting getting some of that.

So sometimes when you're going through this shit boys you know

you're still going to pull some amazing life-changing.

In things out of this, these horrible situations, not just

the learning, but sometimes you get a North star of a partner,

or, or something out of that as well.

So so there you go. That's a, that's a nice little

piece of PS on that one. Yeah, I mean it, but I also

think you had to be open to it and as much as I wasn't where I

wanted to be, I was closer, I was at least driving my own ship

and I was really just there for money and at that time, I

started writing, Scott luck stories, which was the first

thing because these stories were coming to me.

And I was telling them is really what was happening.

I was meeting new people and I would just tell them a story

here and there and they were all laughing and then people would

come and be like, tell him that story about your twins.

And I'd be like, then I was like, is this?

This is funny because I had to up to that point been told no,

you don't tell those stories you don't act up, you don't try, you

know, you are an embarrassment, you got a Conform got that

right? Yep, and as soon as I let me

out, I have been successful. Now, it's a fear to me.

That's where the depression. Still, they can come up, but I'm

also doing what I want to do and that makes it so much easier,

but it's also a fear. Like, will I get put back in

that cubicle? I mean, that's my greatest fear.

Okay, oh, well, I love this. Is something I wanted to talk

about if it does still come up and what you do, like, God talk

about Ah there's a professional Segway folks.

Right there this stuff this stuff it's not like this stuff

went poof and it's gone, you're not 100%.

Still in me 100%. Yes it's still there.

The difference is I'm doing what I'm supposed to do and I'm I'm

actually am making a ton of people.

I don't know happy which is really all that I ever really

wanted to do and that makes it better not.

Not as many as I should be. I could have another tongue.

So You know we could eat too but but board is enough.

So yeah, it's still there but now I know it's like it's like

that friend and it's like it's going to tell me I can't do it

but then it's hard to look. I look and I'm like well I got

don't know I got all these books on the shelf for that.

I think maybe you're wrong and I can do it.

And then also I have to do it now because I gotta keep And out

there or this doesn't work and just like the Lost Highway book.

I didn't know I was doing a Lost Highway book four days ago and

I've already made the front cover.

I'm, you know, I called Bill Pullman's manager to try to get

an interview with him for this book.

I mean, they didn't take my call, I put it to voicemail, no

one's called me back but what they don't know is I'm going to

keep calling. Absolutely yeah, yeah and that's

the thing. So that's why I wrote that

chapter more Again, it's not about me.

It's about that. Stranger that maybe things will

this guy. He's got, he knew all these

people like there's no one in that fire walk with me.

But that I knew or had a connection to.

I got each one of those interviews by begging and

pleading and giving and being nice to them.

That's the key. I'm not I'm not fake nice.

I actually care about what they're saying and I'm giving

everything over to them. We're going to Finish with

kindness. We're not going to quite finish

right yet. I'm gonna hopefully be able to

insert one more Point into this. I wasn't going to do it because

I felt like, like, okay, just full disclosure this podcast

very, very, very easily could have been.

Hey, let's talk to him Peaks. And let's just go down the

rabbit hole and talk Twin Peaks because I'm a huge Twin Peaks

fan as well. And this book is like, holy

shit. Is it ever?

It's like like chocolate and marshmallow and graham crackers.

A campfire. How beautiful and perfect it is.

We could have geeked out over Twin Peaks and and I'm hoping

before we're going to finish with the kindness and because

that's how you finish the chapter by the way and you talk

about and the book you talk about your religion being

kindness, I want to finish with that.

Let it be the angel at the end of our episode about depression,

but there is one other part. I'm going to bring up and the

reason I'm going to bring it up is because you talked about it

with Patricia Arquette. And and I think that I can I

That it can translate to folks because it's a beautiful analogy

of not waking up. You woke up, it took years, you

figured it out and you became aware and then vulnerable.

And now you're on the path to doing what you're supposed to be

doing, which leads to fulfillment.

I think you've done. We've done a really good job of

making that point. It's also possible to live in

blindness and and there's an example out of the book.

I'm going to go back to with Patricia Arquette.

You wrote her a letter, have her, your books sent to her.

It may not get to her and and it might say it or people, right?

Sir. Look, you talk about your

encounter with Chris Isaak and and and oh my God, this part

broke my heart. And maybe, I don't know if you

want to, if you want to maybe just or if you know where I'm

going with this, but I know exactly.

And you know it. An interesting thing because I

could have gone a lot of ways with that part in the book.

But I just thought, I'm going to send a tell this as it happened.

So if you are a Twin Peaks fan there really are two interviews

that people are dying for and really, one is Chris Isaak, and

one is Moira Kelly and neither of them are in the book.

And but, you know, I think I got to both of them but, but neither

of them are in the book. I mean, hey, it happens.

So, with Chris, I thought he was this.

When I was living in Ohio and he was performing in Cleveland, so

we bought tickets and I even paid for the meet-and-greet

which was something like three hundred dollars.

It was a lot, but I was like, whatever.

Me and my wife went, we paid for the meet and greet.

It was actually pretty cool. He comes out and he sings two

songs on the acoustic guitar with just the meet and greet

people. And then you go up and you get a

picture and he'll sign something.

So, I brought up a blue rose magazine and I slid, It across

there and he said, blue rose. That's my line in the fire.

Walk with me. And I said, I know, I know and

he said you started a magazine from my line of a movie and I

said, yeah, I did and I said I'd like to interview you and he was

like, I want to do. They interview with the guy who

started a magazine from something, my said knees like

causes guy open his. I get this guy's information.

I want to do this interview and Then we're going to take a

picture and it was a weird setup, because he signed here

and then he walked over there to take the picture.

So, we take three steps together and he puts his arm around me

and he said, my people hide me from everything.

And I really want to do this interview with you and then

stand back and snap a picture, and then I'm gone.

And I say in the book and I know it's like, hyperbole.

I think those were the Loneliest three steps I've ever taken in

my life because he really did put his arm around me and he

wasn't talking to me. He wasn't telling me this.

It was like, he just said it out loud that he said, his people

protect him for it. Everything and the funny thing

is they didn't give me Chris Isaak, I emailed that he can.

I mean if it probably 14 times yeah and the first time I think

the pride in responding sin again and they said, oh, we're

going to bounce this Upstairs and I'm like upstairs.

Chris Isaac said he would do it. We would we have upstairs to God

here, who we going to be above Chris Isaak.

And then they came back and said know, we've talked to the powers

that be, we're not going to do this and so I actually then did

email them and said, look, I'm putting in the book.

The Chris Isaac said, yes and you stopped it.

I just want you to know it's up to you.

I really don't care. I'm going to print the month and

they did respond. Then it said, oh, we'll see what

we can do. But again, nothing Happened.

Right? I don't believe the Chris Isaac

said no to me. I really don't.

He wanted to do this. He was so touched by it but I

didn't get them. You've done a beautiful job of

retelling, the the anecdote, but also tying it to what we've been

talking about because that's a choice in my opinion, that's a

choice, you know, and I'm not trying to make commentary on

where Chris is at his, you know, his life is designed the way it

is. Could Chris make a choice to

overpower his people and say? No, no this is this is or is he

feeling defeated? Like you said, you don't know

that he was talking to you when he said those words.

He didn't fail to me. All I can say is what my

feelings were. It didn't feel to me like he

like we didn't bond or something.

I mean, we had three seconds while he signed an album of

mine. He just said, like, oh my

people, protect me from everything and I really want to

do this. Yeah.

But he's not saying that to To me, why what do you mean?

I want to do this. You want to do this?

I have an idea. Let's do this.

And you know, there's things that I regret because I wish I

would have said well let's do it right now but I thought he's

preparing for a show. I mean it was before the show

and I don't want to bother him and he said, yes, I mean, I'm

feeling like I got my, Chris Isaak interview is worth 300

bucks. Yep.

We got this and I mean I got that guys and I did tell Chris

also well, my emails in that Magazine because I mean he could

add a and I gave him a copy to well, and there we go.

Like right there. There's a lot of us men who are

knowing that we want to make a change, but we don't speak up

enough to do it. We don't go and get the email

and be proactive and say, you know, you know what, I'm going

to do this on my own, we don't necessarily do and that's a

choice that many of us make to, I think, Scott and I would both

submit. And I mean again, Sometimes

depression and things like need need clinical help.

And we're not saying that this is a clinical, but one of the

ways, sometimes to the light is by not, not just admitting it,

but actually taking a step or two towards it and making the

choice to do that. Because there's a lot of guys

who make the choice not to and they still sit in it and both

Scott and I are both saying, hey, do you know what, make the

choice? It's worth it, it's worth it to

move into that place of authenticity and I want to This

is where I want to finish the interview talking about that.

Because you finish this chapter talking about that how you can

break free, you can get out of the situation that you're in and

it's extremely empowering. The way that you finish this.

It's beautiful. And and I was on a plane when I

was reading it and I sent a bunch of text messages before

the we got back into cells, cell Zone, and all that, because it

was so, Important to me to say those words to you.

After I finished reading that it was beautiful and and there are

so many guys that need to hear that empowerment and then you

finish, you know, you have the interview with Sheryl Lee and

you button up the book so beautifully and then you go into

again. So it's a chapter later where

you talk about this empowerment piece, break free and then you

talk about the way that you finish.

Every book, you talk about how your religion is kindness and

You're a guy who doesn't experience Joy the same way.

Apparently that many other people do you have bouts of

depression yet? Kindness is such a Tethered to

you. And so that's where I wanted to

finish the interview right here with that empowerment.

Peace. And then the kindness peace and

then we can ride off into the sunset and do our thing.

So, I think it's important that you're a guy that deals with

depression, but kindness is a tether for you.

How do those two things reconcile to each other?

A lot of it is manifesting how I wish people were.

I mean, I am kind to the detriment of myself and and it

isn't, you know, I'm probably too kind.

And again like that's a hard thing as a Gen X or to say

because I immediately want to mock me and have someone like I

wish we were in a college. Shou Bou preventative.

Oh yeah. Well, I was driving down I-17

and you run me off the road. Why was that kind?

I'm just like putting me up for everyone to say times that I

haven't been kind but but the idea is, I feel like whatever

happens to me, I'm gonna process it through my junk processor,

and I'm going to beat myself up and not take the rewards.

So the best thing I can do is never Furby that person for

someone else. And it.

Do I have time to tell a little poster?

Oh no. You got it all the time that you

need. Absolutely.

Okay, so this is my example of how I am kind my fire.

Walk With Me book, I was very lucky to sell a lot of copies

myself to Twin Peaks fans, so I had to ship out 500 bucks, which

is amazing amount for one human being.

And the problem with that is the post office does not want to

take those 500 bucks to pull. Office workers, don't want to.

They're very angry with me. So they really only wanted to

let me ship 10 a day but I got them to say that I could do 30

at a time. So now you're starting to see

how many times. I gotta go to the post office to

get these books out. So I'm taking a basic math, you

didn't because you didn't give me the number.

So don't don't try to pull one over on us.

So I'm giving the 30 and While I'm there.

I'm, of course, going to entertain this worker because

they're doing me a favor and and we're going to sit here it takes

a while because they have to type in the zip code for each

one. Yep so I got B planned whatever.

I got going that day, you know whatever bit of Comedy I'm I'm

working them right. Well while I'm working on making

this girl laughs this old guy is up front, it's Florida.

So I mean, of course, it's an old guy and he says, shut up,

just shut up. Let her do her job.

We're all having to wait while you're up there talking.

And so I turned around and I said actually she's quite

competent. Sir, she can listen to me and

type in numbers at the same time.

But I said, Sarah, stop my order but me and stasis, I go to the

post office so much that I know everything they can do and I

said, come on up. Sir.

And I stepped to the side, I said, do what you got to do?

And the post office lady was like, No.

And I'm like, yeah, take it. And he said, well, I want to

book a stamps and I said a book of stamps, I got it, put it on

my bill like we this is no big deal.

I got this and the guy pulled out his credit card and he paid

real quick and then he went on his way and I went back up and I

said, you know, go ahead. Oh yeah and she said, why did

you do that? He was a dick.

Yeah. And I said because your kind

always not kind when it's beneficial to you and not kind.

When you can get something, I said I'm not going to make that

guy change me. Who I am.

He can't control me, you know, who can bring me down.

Only me and I do on a daily basis.

I've beat the hell out of myself.

That guy isn't going to and I mean, it kills me to make all

those people. Wait, I hate that.

I have to go work and I do I got to get these books up.

Yeah, I don't have it. I'm not Amazon, I can't get a

special deal where I can ship them out.

I have to do it all myself. That is an example of how I'm

kind. Always, I would not yell at that

guy. And that is once.

Ori of five that happened to me in shipping the firewall, I got

yelled at five times from different people in this but

like I never yelled back. I just take that in and I just

shoot back kindness and I think they kind of hate me for it.

But what am I going to do? You're not going to derail me.

I spent so many years of my life.

Put away like I'm not going to sit and not tell my jokes.

Yeah and you're also defusing the situation for yourself.

The baggage of imagine if you if you would have just ignored him

you and the girl continued on your Merry way and you had to

continually listen to that and it stayed unresolved for you for

you. This is resolved and it's like,

no, I did everything I could. Here you go.

No baggage for you as well. Yeah.

And I got a good story out of it.

Absolutely. You do and we have a good story

out of it. I, you know we don't need to go

into the that you're living your a living example of it.

You're a living example of so many things that I adore.

I just appreciate your story so much.

I wouldn't be where I am Scott if it wasn't for you.

And and I'm not saying that I am as any place that's high and

mighty where I am, is in a place of authenticity.

I host, I host, you know, the pod This podcast to help my wife

with with her and her team. This is the way that I am able

to contribute to her, he changed it team while I'm, you know,

doing running my financial business to keep the lights on

and all that kind of stuff. It would be a bleak existence,

if that's all I did. But I host this podcast, the

reason I host his podcast is because you wrote, This book and

I connected with you, after being so touched by that book,

by the way I'll show it last season Letterman I was a little

too fast there. I showed it really to quickly

far too quickly understandable. So you know I read the book was

moved by it because you had that DNA in that book to hey don't

think you can't do something just because you haven't done it

and you've seen other people do it.

Don't think you can't do it. I Go out to you.

This is years ago and it's evolved into this place where I

thought maybe I could learn how to do a podcast, just for shits

and giggles, I interviewed you, holy cow, I actually do have a

little bit of stuff here you encouraged me and I've got now,

this crazy Letterman podcast on the side of this thing, that

fills my cup, scratches the itch, whatever analogy you want

to use in a way that I cannot believe is happening for me.

That's just me. That's Again, not high and

mighty. That's just Mike Being Mike.

And it's because you went and did that just like kindness that

kind of shit is contagious. And so I just want to encourage

anybody out there who's listening to this conversation

between two friends that are finding their way in the

universe. That it's not just us, anybody

read. This can also move out of where

they are right now. And I'd, and if you are well, I

appreciate That and I'm not I'm not trying to brush off, I want

to build off on what you're saying and say like if anyone is

depressed and I would think if you're listening to this

podcast, you got to be pretty too long.

You know, you're like fast to be really down.

If this is where you've ended up, but the thing is, that's why

be kind because take what you have and roll it to someone

else. You're not experiencing it, I

don't have it. I'm gonna give it a And I've

been giving that kindness out for, I don't know how many years

in a row, let's say 12 or 13 where I sort of just decided to

to Pivot and now it's just second nature to me.

I'm not even thinking about it and it will become that.

And why not do it? What's good is laying in your

bed or hiding in your basement or why hide for what for who So

that's how I would build off that and thank you for your kind

words, as always it's the truth. You know, the regard I have for

you and this can ship that we have and I just love when our

lives intersect and I look forward to all of the new ways

that that's going to happen down the line as we finish off here.

Let's if you want to follow Scott, if you want to support

him, Scott, what are the best ways to do that on social media?

Because you're very accessible, people can reach out to you and

and You will reach out back. You know, what are the best ways

to contact you? And and to it works, Scott luck

story is my Twitter at Scott luck story.

My website is Scott. Ryan productions.com my

Publishing Company Fayetteville Mafia press.com.

I'm Instagram as the blue rose magazine.

I mean I hate social media with a fiery passion but I do do it

all the time. I'm in I'm out there like you

know I'm I don't say anything mean.

I don't understand mean this on the internet I say.

What if we just all said nice things to each other on the

internet when it be crazy. If every comment was nice, I

like the think about it but it doesn't happen.

So yes. And if you I think even if

you're not that much of a Twin Peaks fan, I my suggestion is if

you are struggling with depression man, check out fire.

Walk with me and really see what Cheryl leech.

We did, I think she will be inspiring to you.

Yeah, without a doubt. You've certainly given me.

I can't wait to watch the movie again.

I just, I just finished the book, this is hot off the press,

this book here, your Laura disappeared or fire walk with

me, your Laura disappeared by Scott, Ryan, Scott once again.

Thank you very much for allowing me to leverage our friendship

for you to do this. And thank you, by the way.

Scott also threw it out there to do this.

He eaten. I say, thanks for calling us.

Our friendship, are you actually that's a lie?

That's that's a complete lie, I would never.

Um, I'm very grateful for you, and thank you for your time here

today. That is a another episode of he

cast. This one's really close to the

heart. I love you brother, and I just

appreciate that so much Mom, you know, again, if you haven't

downloaded the, he changed it up.

What are you waiting for? Go to?

He change.com. All the info was there.

If you like this podcast, please share, It was somebody that you

know, that is another episode of he cast the official podcast of

he changed it. My name is Mike Chisholm go

change. Something