Justen Gordon on Music, Mental Wellness, and Finding His Place in Proper Man

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Welcome to Heat Cast, the official podcast of He Changed

It. As always, I am Mike Chisholm as

always. I am so excited to be here and

to talk about the world of men's mental Wellness in all of the

facets and pathways that we explore in that topic.

Obviously, we are the official podcast of He Changed It.

If you haven't downloaded the He Changed It app, what are you

Waiting for? It has never looked better.

Things are happening behind the scenes.

It's, I know I'm a broken record when it comes to that, but it's

just really exciting to watch this thing grow.

And at the end of the day, you know he changed.

It is the first men's mental Wellness platform that has been

created and we're incredibly proud of of what's been

happening and what is going to happen now.

We have been in partnership for some special episodes of he cast

with a company called Telus for the Canadians.

You know what Telus is for other people around the world, you

might not necessarily know who they are.

Telus is a massive, massive communications company in

Canada. Cell phone provider, broadcast

television provider, massive Internet provider.

And we went into and did a very cool program with Telus and in

it the result was 5 amazing episodes of he cast, which we

are now going to put out on our platform here.

The episodes are with a band, The band is called Proper Man

and a proper man is a local band from Kelowna, BC and all five

members have a story. The entire band has a story.

And so as a narrative, all five episodes tie in together kind of

like Voltron, you know a whole bunch of robots coming together

to make one super robot, kind of like that.

Each episode is amazing and I'm so proud of the work that we

have done. I'm so proud to be friends with

these guys and it's a pretty special story.

So without further ado he cast the official podcast of He

Changed it would like to present a proper man the he cast

Conversations Welcome to he cast the official podcast of He

Changed It as always I am Mike Chisholm we are in the the five

part he cast presentation of proper man the he cast

conversations and and and Justin Gordon is the drummer for proper

man and Justin Gordon is a force of nature.

He just is. I adore this guy.

The energy that he has, the thoughtfulness that he has, the

knowledge that he has. You know, we've started

developing a friendship outside of of of of this as a result of

this project. I gotten into his dad and just

Justin is a really awesome dude and a phenomenal drummer.

I mean he pounds those drums behind proper man and and and

it's just an absolute. He's a ball of energy and he

attracts people and it is a just a pleasure to go deep with him

in this conversation. I can't wait for the reaction

from everybody for this one. So without further ado, he cast

the official podcast of He Changed It presents Justin

Gordon Who is Justin Gordon to me and who is he?

The proper man. He's definitely the heartbeat.

Definitely a lot of energy, a youthful energy, like a a punk

rock, strong heart. A very big supporter.

Like he's he's the guy who I'll be going through my days and,

you know, kicking the dirt and feeling sorry for myself and

Bing. I love you, brother, and it

happens all the time. Justin's that guy who's just

really kind of lifting people up, putting everyone else before

him. Even when I tell him he's got to

be quiet, he gets mad at me, but he gets a bit quieter because

he's hitting a little bit too hard.

Just a beautiful, beautiful person at that point too.

Going through the drummer thing like I was at the point where I

was almost ready to stop. It's just life.

I've got, you know, 3 little girls and a son and a marriage

and trying to run whatever it is.

I'm running all the time and just just getting really beat

down. But when he came in, he

definitely gave me something, some energy.

I like to do things for other people.

And having seen him come into the band and falling in love

with the band and watching the band all lift up, he gave me the

energy to put a lot into it, to keep building what I was doing

for them because that's where I get my energy is, is helping

other people have fun or build them, right.

So yeah, he's, he's the band. He saved the band.

He did. Justin saved the band, and he

does a very good drum solo. But tell him to keep his shirt

on because it gets ugly. A drummer?

Yeah. In a band?

Yeah, founded by two drummers. I know you to to accept that

when they brought me in was, I don't know if it was the gin and

tonics or if it was just maybe, you know, I was really wanted to

get back into a band. It was.

Did they give you notes, like, do they like like, or was it

just one of those things where the audition process of who are

we going to put behind that kick was just a couple different

magnifying glasses and all that? And when they found you that was

it. Or was there was there rough

water? It's a kind of a weird story.

I'll give a Reader's Digest because I I also want to protect

those who came before me in the band.

Not that they need protection. It's just that you know the the

as you heard the line was on on stage.

As you know, Travis and I are are assholes.

And you know all these other drummers quit and there was some

INS and outs when when Roerman started seven years ago.

And Petri can talk to you more about this and Jay can talk to

you more about this. It was really Petri and Jay

getting back together and and spending time together and just

making music. And so proper men never really

had this identity of like, oh, we're going to be a band that's

going to play shows. It was always like just a place

to write music. But slowly but surely they got,

you know, they got a few guys in the band and all of a sudden

it's like they had a band But these drummers for various

reasons and I know all of them, some better than others and

they're absolutely wonderful people.

Like they really are. I know, I know it almost sounds

like I'm pointed on, but they they really are.

All these guys are a class musicians, a class people.

It's just it just didn't work out for one way or another.

I know that sometimes and this is just, you know, I don't know

if this would be in the interview or not the

speculation, but I know some drummers just want to do more

jamming Top 40 stuff. They're not really when we

perform. I got a computer up there and

there's backing tracks and so we're on rails.

The entire song. Like, there is no room to B

loose or B, you know, maybe a spur of the moment, change some

stuff up. So maybe that was it.

I don't know. Maybe it was.

Maybe it was. Maybe Jay is right.

Maybe it was they were just assholes or something.

For one reason or another, it didn't work.

Now it was it was late March in 2019 so And Nori texted me

because Nori and I have known each other so.

Where's the connection? There, Nori and I, I started at

Wentworth Music teaching drums in 2006.

So that dude and I go decently back now, 18 years, pretty much,

right So. And him and I just formed into

just being best friends. I'm very, very close with him

and his brother Neil is in Neil's wedding and they're just

too salt to the earth people. I just love them anyway.

So he he texts me a couple years before this.

It was 20/17/2016 goes, hey, you want to be a proper man?

I said man. From all the touring and all the

session work and all the other stuff I've done with my life, I

just wasn't ready to get back into a band.

I had been in a band before where when I left it was given

to me or told to me that everything was cool, but then it

was not cool apparently. So there was some.

It ended up being an unfortunate situation with maybe some bad

blood at the end of it. Not maybe absolutely was, but

it's unfortunate how it ended. I was told one thing and it was

really another and so I I had some trust issues there from

being perfectly honest and open. So I wasn't quite ready mentally

and I was really enjoying teaching.

I was just having a blast with that.

That was my thing, you know, I I had an identity with it really

still due to this day. I just love going to work.

And the teachers there call me insane because I teach.

Most of them teach 3035 hours. I'm close to 45 hours a week.

Just teaching. I just love it.

Just drums. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just focus on that. That's my main thing.

What kind of students do you have?

Like what are the age ranges in the students that you have?

The age range of the students. My youngest student now is

actually my niece and I love her to death.

She's 5 and so like I actually do teach at a young age.

A few things that I've learned over time is just how to teach

kids at A at a very young age and be able to use colour

coordination with notations so that they understand the notes.

The notes aren't just these boring things on a line anymore.

It's like oh pink is snare drum this drum and yellow is crash

and different colours. So I from five to, you know,

well 5:00, well into even some of the more advanced classes.

Sometimes it's just easier to read that way.

But my youngest is five. My oldest student is 68 years of

age. So I I mean it's wide open.

Bulk of my class though is anywhere between, you know, 12

and and all the way up to 22. I would say a lot of my students

maybe just with COVID recently of course and kids not moving

off to college as much, you know, they've stayed.

And I, you know, I really want to believe that that's a test

and also to the connection that I've made with them because a

lot of them parents are coming back to me and going, yeah, we

thought he would be done at Grade 12.

And he's telling us, like, no, like, I'm, I'm going to go to,

you know, the local college here, but I would really like to

keep drum lessons going. And so that's a really cool

thing, right? You know when you when you have

that kind of connection with these kids and you're kind of

really a Big Brother to them And I take huge pride into that.

So yeah. So that's just the community

involvement in general coming back or circling back.

When Nori texted me, he texted me.

It was March 30th and he texted me.

He goes, hey you want to be improper man a second time.

And I said, yeah, I actually want to give it a shot.

I I just was in a right place. Maybe it was the day.

Maybe it was whatever. Now did you know maybe I had a

really good Americano. I didn't.

And this is my favorite part of the whole story and it's really

nothing crazy of a story. I what what's insane is is I had

done a recording on drums for a guy in the wine industry and he

had very unfortunately his sister had passed due to

situation. I'm sure you had heard about

that and it was a very sad, very sad situation and and Nori had

told me about it and he says he's he's written a song and you

just need drums laid to it. And so this was back and I'm

going to get their year wrong probably was maybe 20/16/2017

And so I put drums to it. I in a in a heartbeat I said

yeah, I mean that's the the story is you know the story let

alone just this guy. You know I've always been

passionate about people who want to bare their soul into

anything. And so I said yeah, instantly,

yeah, lay drums to it, put the track.

Little did I know that was Jason.

And so I meet, I meet Jason. We put the two and two together.

He knew it was you that laid the drum.

For the I believe so. You should actually ask.

I'm pretty sure he did. Because this guy knows, like,

this guy knows everybody, right? Like Jay, Jay's that guy, right.

So we go literally just over to Brown's social house.

He goes, hey Justin, Jason, want to, you know, meet you face to

face 45 minute lunch. I I was in the middle of one of

those crazy days, just like working 8:50 type of thing, and

it was 45 minutes that changed my life.

I had never connected with a person, and I connect well with

people. I do find that I do connect well

with people. Pride myself on that, 'cause I

feel like that's important, 'cause we only get so many days

on this earth. And plus when you're teaching

with teaching. When you're like, like, like

like, how important is it you're in a band like this?

Part of this is, you know, the idea of men's mental health.

I love the idea of talking to a band because at the end of the

day, you've got all these different perspectives, all

these different personalities, these different things that when

you mash them together, well, it's harmony.

Yeah, but what's the opposite of harmony when it's not like that?

Right. Like relationship skills.

Yeah, so. 1000. Percent and and Jason is a

connector, too. He connects with people too, So

I can imagine that lunch would have.

Been a It was like it was just the three of us.

It was Nori, Jason and I, and it was just the connection was just

it was crazy. Just comes in is and I love him

to death. He's like one of my favorite

human beings. He comes in, he's got this like

very burly, like old sweater. And he comes in with his flat

cap. And again, you got to remember,

it's like I've been told, like guy who owns all these wineries.

And he comes in. Yeah, kind of.

Right. Well, that's that's what people

because I did look him up a little bit.

I don't want to know who I'm meeting and who I'm talking to,

you know, being an academic, I do my research.

So I, I, I come in and he just comes in.

He's got these, these tattoos and he's just got these things

and I'm just like this guy's just like the most down to earth

person I've ever met. Anyway, I just connected with

him. It was like, I don't know, just

like our minds, our hearts just went and it was like I left

there going I'm 1000% in that band.

A few weeks later, we had a rehearsal.

And let me tell you, like, I've done rehearsals for artists and

done tryouts to be on tours and played all these big things in

studio session work in LA, for instance.

I've done all of that. I've never been so nervous in my

life for an audition because it meant something different.

I it was almost like I wanted to go into respect Nori and respect

Jason. I find out later when I get

there. I'm like, oh, Travis actually

was a part of a church that my wife had gone to for years.

So Kristen had known him forever, and he had been a big

player in the scene and stuff, and we had crossed paths a few

times. And it was just like, I'm like,

are you kidding me? Like, the only guy I actually

had to fully meet was like Petrie at the end of the day.

And even that that guy just was at his house last night.

He's just like when you talk about all these different

personalities in the band. Everybody in this band

specifically would run in front of a bus for each other.

And I know that's usually a dank way of explaining it, but it's

it's for me, it's more of the the the chemistry is so genuine

and so easy. Do we have our arguments?

Yeah. Most of the time it's just

around song parts when we're putting our tracks together.

That might be the most, but it's always just surface stuff.

It's never like nobody ever makes it personal.

Nobody ever. Because when it comes to the

personal side of it, we're all there to look out for each

other. At the end of the day, if

someone's hurting in the band or someone's voice isn't being

heard, the rest of us rally and go no speak because this is

important and Jason is is really a master at doing that to to

extend the point, even with shows and how we've built this

and how we've put this all together, Jason will even get

approval on certain shows from the wives in the band because he

doesn't. And he's explained it very

detailed to me. He says he doesn't want this to

be a band where it's band first, family second, it's family

first, band second. It's very simple process.

But I'm telling you right now, I don't think there's a single

band or artist out there that's doing.

And if there is, forgive me because I'm not trying to hate.

I'm just saying, like, I had never seen that in all of my

years laying, whether I was laying for a solo artist or

whether I was laying in another band.

I just never seen something where it was like so simple, yet

so consistent. The communication is very good

with us. There are, again, there's

sometimes we Jason jokes that we do need a band manager, because

I think it's getting to the point now with doing all of

these shows and doing these new tracks and there's.

A momentum happening for this? Band well, and that's just it,

right? He wants to make sure that it's

all in front of us and it makes sense.

But this this whole thing, I mean he went out of his way to

put our wives pictures, got a photo shoot with them all and

our wives are up on the wall like little things like that

carry a bigger weight than anything musically.

So when I get up on that stage, when I sit down and I put the

first metronome on on that TM6, when I hit that first moment and

and and we're all bobbing back and forth because we're all

freak shows, right? We're all a bunch of weirdos and

we're bobbing back and forth. I lock into this thing where I'm

going I'm going to war with my four brothers and we want to

give every damn person in this room the time of their life.

I will never show up and play a show half assed because if I do,

that shouldn't be in music. I I'm getting goosebumps.

You smash those drums and I love watching you smash those drums

and in the preparation for for this, I've seen you guys perform

probably a ten dozen times over this last, you know.

Sorry, I bet you're here. No, it's fantastic.

I love it so, so much. Awesome.

Jay, a front man who started as a as a drummer.

Yeah, you a drummer started as a guitar player You like.

OK. So where did you know you wanted

to be a drummer? Obviously it's we're all in our

progressions. You know we try little things

and they lead to other little things that lead to other little

things that lead to the the gold mine, to where we we feel like

we are. When I watch you on that stage,

I see you being you in a purest form of some sort.

We all have our different purest forms, husbands, fathers,

whatever. But but I see you and you are

literally being you in your purest form.

It is very obvious watching you perform that, that is that's you

just turned up to 1111, right? When did you, how long did it

take to go from guitar over to drum and then to be locked in

and going OK, no, I want to really go for this.

So I I would have brought my mom to this interview and she could

have told you a bit of that insight, because the truth of

the matter is that that woman is one of my favorite people of all

time. She's a St. from the age of

three. I was ripping pots and pans.

I was that drummer. I was that kid.

That's the story. I know you've probably heard

that story a few times but I really was just pulling

everything and anything out of the thing, which is funny when,

you know, dad got me this, this and it, it was great.

It was that Fender red with the white on pickguard Squire

guitar. I was like, that was it.

And I and for a little while I was like, man, this is really

cool. Like I could do stuff and I got

into it and I was like, I'm not feeling this it probably because

I couldn't smash it. I mean, I mean let's be honest.

So my dad when he pulled out this kit, now this kit was 19.

I think it was 1973 Ludwig drum kit.

The Toms used to be old double snares.

I mean, this drum kit was trash on trash.

That being said, it was mine. And when he put that in the

room, my dad, my my both, my parents absolutely loving.

I grew up with everything you could ask for, you know, with

with love and care and attention and everything else.

I very fortunate. I know being in the industry I'm

in with teaching, that's just just doesn't happen as much as

it absolutely should nowadays. So you know my dad caught on

pretty quick, wasn't vibing with it.

OK, that's cool. Let's get in this drum kit.

This is all we got right now. We didn't grow up with a ton of

money. What we had instead was values

and and love and everything else.

And so that's where I, you know, for me that was way better than

any. I had friends in $1,000,000

mansions and they had way less than I did the way I look at it,

and that's always the way I've looked at it.

There's been a theme along this so far already.

The ability to recognize and to hear each other.

You talk about it in the band. We wanna make sure that the

people in the band hear yeah, you think about your dad who

didn't just try and shoehorn you to do something he wanted you to

be into. He.

Heard you and I think that that is an example as men that we

like. I know it's an example for men

in marriage. They've written volumes of books

and books and books about how men, when it comes to

relationships with their wives, that sort of thing.

Be good at just listening. Two ears, one mouth.

Don't just try and steamroll, right.

And it. Sounds like you came from an

environment and still have perpetuated an environment for

others where hearing the other person is extremely important.

Absolutely. Sounds like that's very

important to you. I had my parents were the type

where I was very fortunate to excel in math and science.

I could have gone to university from Med school, and my parents

were like, just do something you're happy and something that

makes you happy. And so I ended up going for

music instead, which a lot of parents would just be like.

Are you insane? Yeah.

How do you monetize? Your kid could have been making,

you know, 400,000 a year, having a terrible social life and

whatever. No offense to doctors, they

notiful people thank you, not you.

It's not. But it's just not who I was

because I was. I may be good at something, it

doesn't mean you need to pursue it or something.

And case in point, I was good at drums.

But the thing was, at the end of the day, they knew what made me

happy. So you know when my dad got me

the drum kit and this is going to age me a bit or make some

people older than me mad and you can tell Jay I said this.

My first album was Big Shiny Tunes 2.

That's all I had at the time. So I put it on and I put it down

and I put the CD player, This is, I had this, the little

ghetto blaster, and I had to put it up on the windowsill and move

my drums in such an awkward position.

My room was a mess. Parents are cool with it, I

hope. But I had the ghetto blaster

right next to my head and this is probably where I and I'll

never forget Song 2 by Blur. And I'm just like, I'm like yes.

And it was just like at that point it was off and then it was

album after album after album and it was just non-stop in

Salmon Arm which is where I was at the time growing up small

town British Columbia. Yep.

Yep. Not really any music teachers.

I had some band teachers, couple guys that were really nice guys,

but I I don't know, I just they didn't really do much with the

percussion side of stuff. It was always like oh you're

insane. You go to the back there and

play some drums and hit a triangle or something and and so

I I it was really just self-taught right off the rip.

So the first like I can't I I'm just trying to quantize.

It's been so long now trying to figure this out maybe the first

eight years of my life which is all self-taught, just non-stop,

non-stop, non-stop. Now my dad was in some churches

and organizations and stuff, and I did get opportunities to play

with churches and bands and stuff and because a lot.

Of good musicians inside some of those churches too. 100% oh,

1000% really. And so that was really where I

got my start to play. And it was like, I just loved

playing. I'm I do not find myself and I

don't know if this is too much information needed or not.

I don't find myself a religious person any way, shape or form.

I just I'm really anti religion in a lot of ways because I feel

like people should have free will to choose for themselves

and and and who and be who they want to be.

It doesn't fit in line with the rest of my thinking.

I will say this though, my parents always understood that

and never pushed that on me personally.

So it was always a safe place for me just to play.

Whether it was rock music or maybe like Newsboys or DC Talk,

which was some Christian rock which they were cool with either

they were always just supportive.

At the end of the day my so my mom was the biggest St. in the

world because she was like she would just be like, yeah, just

play. So I yeah, I when I'm talking

about playing remember I'm good at math and science in school

and I'm half decent so I would have my homework done most days

coming home. So when I came home I was just

like mom, I'm done. Boom, down to the room.

And it was like until dinner and then after dinner until my

parents were like, literally, you've got to go to bed.

And I had an acoustic drum kit. So again, the patience on that

woman was insane. So, but it was what built the

foundation for my ability to play with music and I even in my

own teaching plot. Now I know that reading sheet

music and learning drums in both ways is very important.

I try to be like AI, always want my drummers to be a dual threat

drummer where they can read theory and the ear because it's

like learning. If I went and learned Spanish

tomorrow but never spoke it with anybody, never went to Mexico or

Spain and never just never applied it, why would I learn

the language? What's the point?

So same thing, music is a language.

If you're going to learn it, you're going to spend that much

time doing Rosetta Stone, you know, taking lessons and all

this other stuff with drumming, Why are you not exercising the

point? And then on top of that, I find,

you know, the passions with it that come so my, you know, and I

was going through all these different bands and I just

couldn't stop playing my auntie on my mom's side.

She gave me a couple Prince records and that was the first

time I heard John Blackwell Junior, which is one of my

drumming idols. And it was just like I was like,

yes. And so it was, I was very

diversified due to the church playing gospel stuff due to my

parents. Cool with me playing any kind of

run grunge rock, right. Because it was rating that the

90s baby I was living and alive in the 90s, right.

Yeah, exactly. And then having that side of

like Prince and listening to like more session type music and

pop man, I looking back at it now is super fortunate because

too many people I talk to or or or teach they got blinders on.

Oh yeah, and I can. Anything outside of metal sucks,

or anything outside of pop sucks or anything else I'm like, I OK,

what's? One of the things I love about

Proper Man, one of the things I love about Proper Man is that

it's hard to it's hard to throw you into any one particular

genre or sub genre you guys will play.

Yeah, it kind of was I I I don't know if I would even word it

like that. And the reason why was because

the music list I got when I first started and this comes

back to that first rehearsal with them, I was kind of scared.

Doubly scared because the music I had listened to now, I had

come out of some like I'd been on Vans Warped Tour with some

bands. I had done a lot of like heavy

punk rock and like even post hardcore work with some bands.

So for me to come out of that and go this is like new wave and

the the the Toms are triggered and everything sounds and their

drummer previous to them was more of wording this correctly.

So it doesn't sound slanders it just it was just very like very

much using the triggers it was quieter drummer, more reserved

in that kind of pocket feel with the with the IT just fit the new

wave thing a little bit more yeah.

So when I came in, I felt a little bit, and I still do to

this day. But Jason is very gracious with

it and honestly loves where we're going with it.

He really does. He keeps telling me this, and

that's what I mean. I don't know if he's telling me

this to make myself feel good or not, but but he does tell me

like, the sound is getting heavier.

I came in and he's like, be you so proper man.

When you hear songs like I Drink or a pub night, they sound

drastically different than you, me and OMD or some of these

bigger songs. And that's really you know,

guilty as charged I guess. I just came in and I was like,

yeah, because I'm like I told him from the get go.

I mean I could pull back. I have I've session work

background in me. I can do all these things.

But he there was just an element of the animal on stage type of

thing that he I said I assumed that he liked and again you can

ask him further on this but yeah for me it was it was just the

ability to be me on stage and I think that's really what you're

seeing. And at the end of the day

because I growing up in church, I was told often hey like pull

it back like you're a little out, like a little out.

And I was always a loud drummer I just always was and it wasn't

like a dynamic issue. I don't say well it was early on

for sure and and then I got education.

I got my edge invocation in the old dynamics and drumming and I

I learned how to play with feeling and balance and also

stuff. But but it's just the music is

just specifically wired and geared and you I don't know if

Jason showed you some of the new stuff we've got but it's just.

Oh yeah, I'm going to ask you. Big anthemic music.

Sorry. Yeah, I get ahead on the

interview, but yeah, so at the end of the day, man, I grew up

with parents who loved me and cared about the direction of

which I wanted to do music and life in general.

They just wanted me to be happy. My dad grew up in gangs, ran

away at 13, did the gang thing with his brother.

My mom ran away from home at 16 to a terrible, terrible family

situation. They could have been completely

dysfunctional, but they rallied and turned it into something

Where again, speaking to that awareness and taking care of me.

And then when I met Kristen, who's now my wife of Do the math

Justin, really quick 8 to 8 to 2216 years.

Love you, sweetheart. Sorry, I'm just bad at the math

thing. A drummer says that right.

She's not going to do that anyway.

My beautiful wife whom I met in 2006 and has been with she's my

ride or die. She also has a similar situation

where she moves in that where it's just like people should be

who they want to be. And and and really just lean

into the awareness of letting people be who they want to be

and love and support them for that.

And if you can't do that, what are we doing?

Well OK, I've gotta, I've gotta because, I mean you've mentioned

this in two or three different ways.

The fact that your parents allowed you to do this.

The fact that you're you're band you came into this band and and

I think a lot of men out there today are in a place we're in a

post me too world where there's a lot of guys who are feeling

the need to conform out of for whatever reason for whatever

reason. Whether it's fear of keeping a

job whether it's fear of of the past whether it's whatever that

might be you know but but but there's a there's this this this

part where it's like no you got to conform and and and you know

you coming into proper man saying Oh yeah you know I'd be

willing to to conform and then the the opposite though was like

no no no you go be you and we'll see how you being you adds a

dimension an extra dimension something different.

And I think that that's what we as men need to do.

I mean we need to be able to hear yes we need to be able to

hear what's going on what's happened.

You know the the ramifications of things But at the same time

we're not gonna make the world a better place if we're also just

conforming. So we need to hear, but we also

need to be us and we need to move forward.

That's what I'm hearing with. Yeah, and even the conforming

thing for me with the music was always that was just me being

sensitive to what they had going on.

I was coming in as an I was coming.

I was on their turf until it was probably really fairly quickly.

The band's kind of got a crazy history since I had joined

because Nori's wife had gone through a severe medical

situation. So he wasn't able to do many

shows, but he flew back for just one show and it was that first

show that we did in May. That was May 4th, 2019.

Remember, it's still to this, like acutely remember it.

And it was this little house party.

Well, I want to say little, but Jay's house, like in that

basement, that was like, it was 88 people in there, something

just under 90 people. And it was that was the moment

where I was like, OK, I'm part of the band now, but they but

they always made me feel welcome.

It wasn't that. It was for my own making sure

that I fit. And I was like, OK, I'm right

for this band. That's why I fit.

And it was never a thing of OK, they're making me feel like I

fit, dude, they they put on like a feast.

The first rehearsed, I said holy crap, like, so they they got the

pool out. They got the the the whole feast

thing going on. Everybody's just chilling.

We hung out. I've never been in a band where

we just hung out for like 2 hours before we even played any

music. I'm like, what is like, what is

this? But this is exactly where I need

to be because not only is it good for my own soul and

mentality, but it's something that I feel like I can openly be

myself and bring to the others as well and the family members

from them. So everybody's family like you

know, I love you know, Angie and Nikki and Kristen and Christy

just as much as I love the boys. Like it's all one just tight

knit family with this group. So I I don't know, man.

I it's I I always say being in this band is like playing

Nintendo with a game. Genie Dan's got their own venue.

They don't have to ever pack up. And any drummer out there, you

know, right. I'm going to leave my sticks

back there. This is the greatest homeless

advantage of. Anything.

I mean, come on, man. Right.

And then. But here's the thing, as as as

wonderful as all this is, that's not even what I'm talking about.

It's that chemistry and it's that family first band second

thing that we've been able to keep and keep effortlessly and

naturally through this whole sequence.

And I just, I don't know, man, it just gets me like borderline

emotional because I'm, you know, I just and so again, probably

coming back to this a lot because my brain will and but

that's when I get up there. All of those things, I don't

think of them acutely, individually.

They come in as one, like thought and one ball of thought.

And it's just like, all right, we're going to war.

This is happening. I'm not leaving that stage until

I play, you know, because in a in any given, if I play, we had

a recording. I play 98 minutes the other

night and play 98 minute show. You know, I'll play.

I don't know what the math would be on that.

Probably close to like over 100,000 notes in a show.

OK, I don't know if that's like over or under, but I want to

nail as many of those 100,000 notes correctly as possible.

Why not? Because I come off sounding like

God or perfect. Nothing like that.

No, because then it makes Petrie's job easier.

It makes Travis's job easier. It makes, you know, Nori and

Jason's job easier. And they're all proud of what

they're a part of. And we all, but we all do that.

As a band, you guys have been there for each other and you are

actively there for each other. What are some ways that you've

been there for each other? And you don't have to get too

specific if you don't want to, but I'm just, I'm just and is

this part of that magic that you were talking about?

You've been part of different bands and different, you know,

musical iterations for your your whole life.

Is it always like that or is it this band special words like, Oh

my God, we are there for you because you guys have been there

for each other in multiple ways. You referred to Nori's

situation, how you guys all rally for each other.

It seems that you will all rally for each other If ever one of

you is is is is in a weakened position, the rest of you rally

for that person. Yeah.

And accurate. Yeah, accurate, absolutely

accurate. One of us was and I'm, I'm going

to keep it that vague. One of us was going through a

medical situation a couple years ago and it was affecting his

ability to just feel normal, sleep, do anything.

And we gave him the time, patience, everything we needed

just to let him get through it until he got his surgery.

And when he got his surgery, he bounced back and he's great and

it's like things like that. It was a no brainer.

It wasn't like, you know, well, OK, well, let's move on.

Let's go get someone else in the band at that, at that position

or whatever. It was just like, no, like let's

ride this out with him. Let's get him, you know get him

the help he needs. And I, Jay did extraordinary

stuff even just to get that surgery day happening and and

moved up and stuff and so I'll keep it vague again just for the

because it's not my place to necessarily speak and that's a

protection thing for my boys as well.

But. But at the end of the day that

was something that happened and it was just like things like

that or when we were recording the album there was a few drum

parts that I really liked. Things like that where I was

like I was super proud of it but it didn't fit and serve the song

and it made the other parts maybe look a bit weaker or

disjointed in areas. Take them out and it's not take

not like fine take them out like it was like no take them out

please. Like I insist like it's no does

not serve the song. It doesn't it it should never

serve me. It only serves the song.

So things like that as far as like day-to-day stuff.

I I mean, I've, I've made trips out here or out wherever to come

and take care of something even though I live like, you know on

the opposite side from here. And that's just from my end.

I mean guys have been there for me through and through.

Hear me out as you know with Nori and I's relationship and

he's just always been for there. But like, I sometimes will text

Jay and some of the other guys randomly.

Just be like, hey, love you. You're 1000% an absolute beauty.

Don't forget that. And things like that I feel are

important to do with ones that you love.

And just just quick reminders, 'cause you don't know where

they're at in their day and their week.

We don't always get a chance to talk every single day.

Like, I mean, Nori and I do just 'cause we work together.

Sure. I mean, I'm sick of that guy,

but no, I but you know, you don't always get you just you

don't know. You don't know.

And I've texted Jay that before and he's texted back and goes

like, your timing is incredible. How would I know that?

Like is that and I'm not pulling something out of my hat.

All I'm doing is I'm just going hey thinking about you you're

amazing love you. That's it.

So things like that we're all very good doing it is it's a

brotherhood for sure I can't like imagine and we I don't know

I don't even I I we could never I don't think we could ever add

we're we're looking at I don't want to cat out of the baguette

here but there's a project that we're thinking of doing side

project probably still doing something doing a side project

we might add another member another person.

But it even when we were talking about that I was like it just

because this is so acutely its own thing.

It just felt like it was like it was almost weird to hear it or

hear and the guys coming in is amazing but it's it's just a

different project thing that we're doing on the side and it

just kind of showed me like I could never I I could never

imagine any single member being replaced or or changed out.

I I I had to feel freaking weird.

Case in point we shot a music video for one of our new songs

the Fort the other day. Petrie couldn't make it he was

physically like not in Kelowna. So we shot his parts without

him, a lot of green screening and things like that.

And then he shot his part separately and it just felt, I

don't know, the shoot was great, but it just, it felt weird.

And I know it sounds goofy, almost like, but that's that's

that vulnerable thing. We need to be able to talk about

that stuff, 'cause that toxic masculinity thing where it's

like, it's just one of your Bros is gone.

Like, get over it, bro. Like, you know, don't sound, I

don't want to say some of these these words, but like, you know,

toughen up like you don't. You don't, you don't need all

your boys. I'm like, you know what?

I love hanging with Petrie. It felt weird.

I didn't like it. If you got a problem with that,

I sorry, I don't know what to tell you.

I feel bad for you because then if if you know if that's the way

that your brain is wired, someone's obviously affected you

enough years and I'm probably segueing this now into some of

this, this where we're at a society, but.

Yeah, you're kind of a pro. You're kind of a pro.

Like, OK, so when? They don't give me a mic.

Can you believe this? Like I have no microphone back.

I got ones from my drums. Nothing from Mario.

When when, when, when we showed up that night you guys were in

the dimmer Amber Room and and and Jason introduced and said

OK, there's this thing called he changed it.

It's being built here and they want to do a a a feature on

proper man and and just talking about the idea of men's mental

Wellness and trying to be an aid.

They're trying to be a solution trying to be all these things.

The band I, you know, I can't, I can't, I cannot articulate well

enough how lit up all of you were and instant,

instantaneously in what about you know what he changed his

doing this, this whole idea of what we're doing here with this

what what, what appealed to you guys so much about that to you

personally. To me personally, I've my whole

life, career and being as a human being is to.

Be as kind and and open and communicative with people as

possible and make them feel like they are belong.

What is the one thing that everybody wants, right?

They want to feel like they belong very much so and that can

so acutely play a role into where they are mentally.

Say it's the only thing but it can play a massive role.

You could have 1000 friends and still feel lonely you.

Could be the loneliest man in the room exactly right.

Absolutely. And so absolutely it's it's

unique to think that like without that what do we have as

people, What are what's inside of us.

And then you take the, the the very real situation outside of

that is that the, the, the mental situations and hurdles

that people have. Some of the closest people in my

life have anxiety and depression or ADHD which can drive on their

anxiety and things like that. It's very real.

And so when I hear people blow it off and go, oh, it's it's not

real. I I can't believe that we're

just getting to this now in the last 10 years let's say over

five years maybe where it's like, no, we should talk about

this because you know hearing some of these stories, I was

moved. There was a local guy I used to

watch the Canucks. Corey Hirsch.

I don't know if you've interviewed him or she, but his

story is his story is insane and and things like that.

But could you imagine, like, I I could.

And this is where I I guess I am thankful for where I am now.

And that's why I try to be such an advocate for it is because

when he was sitting on on the edge of that Cliff with that

car, like who is he going to talk to?

Because most of the guys probably would have been like,

this is kind of weird bro. Like you, you just suck it up.

Like, you know we grew up in a suck it up generation.

As someone who played hockey as a kid very acutely, remember the

suck it up generation? Oh, your head hit the back of

the post and you knock yourself, you're fine.

Get back in the game. You go through this or you're

going through some life stuff, you're fine.

Suck it up. And then people always pair it

and like, oh, well, this guy has it worse and he's fine.

Is he? Why are we comparing this to

that person's situation has to be taken seriously that

situation and and it taken to the point where someone.

I just want people to feel comfortable to talk to me about

stuff. If I've just met you or if I've

known you for 1000 years, I want you to be able to talk to me

about those things. So for you to come in when

you're talking about heat changed and I started looking at

the app, I start to understand what you guys are doing.

Yes, because here are the two most common things in the world.

At some point today, we're all going to open our app, go to

Instagram, Twitter, whatever, right?

We're going to open our apps, to have an app and to have

something that's so accessible to everybody that allows them.

And I love brilliant, by the way, at the beginning, how are

you feeling? Like, shit.

Like it would. It was like, you know, that sort

of thing, you know? And it was like that.

But that's serious because if you were like, hey, how are you

feeling? How are you those, those that

toxic masculinity starts to like, no, no, no, I'm not doing

this. This is something from the

women's network or something. It's not that we can be guys and

and talk about our problems, but there's so much acute hurt and

there's so much acute abuse that's happened and run rampant,

whether it's a parent, whether it's a mentor, whether it's a

teacher, whether it's you imagine growing up your whole

life. And I honestly sometimes don't

even know how I came out of that because I had coaches like that

and I I do know how I do. It was my parents 100% because

my parents always there for me. But I I've had friends who grew

up and it was just like how you came out.

Still believing in yourself and being there for people is

nothing short of a miracle. And it needs to be pointed out

because Oh my God, like we really need to start talking

about stuff And then people always take it to.

And here's the issue with it for me is that people take it to

such extremes, right. So it's like the second is like,

hey, men should be able to talk about stuff and then all of a

sudden people like twist and turn it to such an extreme.

It's like well, why doesn't everybody just have a mental

illness. Why doesn't everybody just have

this And everybody's everybody's all like, let's all just suck it

up, OK? Like it's and it's you can hear

the hurt some from some people's voices.

Unfortunately, these people are in positions of power because

other people follow them. Like, I mean, look at the

influencer generation where you've got guys like Andrew

Tate. And I'm like, why?

Like what? I don't know.

I'm just, you know, I don't. I didn't want to come on to this

interview, start naming names about people.

I'm just saying like, there is, there is a circle of people, you

know, you can't. If you ever want to feel bad

about yourself, just go on Instagram and search up like the

regular posts and you see what houses you don't have, what cars

you don't own, what money you don't have, what house you don't

have. You're missing a few ABS.

You don't have that girl that you know that girl.

You don't have this, you don't have that.

You're not in, in and on a beach in Costa Rica somewhere.

Like you just just filled it violently with what you don't

have. So if you're already in a bad

place or you're dealing with some stuff and especially during

a holiday season, the pressure and the impact on everything, I

mean, I can't imagine how some people function.

So to have an app, I think there's everybody needs to be

aware of this app. And I sounds like a big sell,

but it's really not. It just is a very honest place

for me to come from where I'm like I there's a few friends in

my life who are no longer with me because they took their own

lives that I know would still be here today if they had something

like that. And that's a big statement.

But I knew what they were going through.

And as much as I wanted, as much as I reached out and wanted to

reach out further and everything else, you can only do so much.

And one thing my dad always taught me that was super

critical is that you can only help people that want to be

helped. They have to be in a place, but

the problem with that is that and not with that statement.

But the problem then is people are so acutely hurt and abused

that they don't know how to even ask for it.

So to maybe have an app where they don't have to, they can

just they don't have to talk to anybody or admit to anybody.

But an app that I'm going through some shit I'm in the

dumps, I'm going through some stuff and a step by step guide

to help them get back on their feet or find the help or at

least communicate it to other people is.

Everything. Getting it out, pouring out the

glass, right. That's what we got.

We got all the time. Like when the glass gets full of

stuff, all it takes is 1 little drop to spill out and make a

mess on the table. But if you have a place that you

can empty it out and emptying it out is so simple.

But it's the hardest thing in the world because of some of

some of the things that you've mentioned here.

And I I appreciate hearing this very, very, very much because

people will look many times at guys in a band.

You know you you you know you talk about opening about

Instagram seeing you guys holy shit it's amazing but it's like

oh that's that could never be me and and and and and and part of

the reason why you guys were such a part like again I, I, I

just there are no coincidences and doing this feature on proper

man even the name of the band. You know just the way this the

synergy as I've learned about all of you individually and then

watched you as a cohesive unit as well.

It's just it's such a powerful a metaphor, allegory, whatever you

want to call it for what things could be.

Yes. And I mean you've seen it on on

on both sides again, you know, the literal, you've seen the

toxic side of being in in in in toxic bands or toxic situations

when it comes to music. But then you've seen it this

other way too, where you've got this vulnerable place real there

for each other and and and doing it right, doing it healthy.

Totally. As we start to move towards the

close here. Yeah.

The song Bloodless. Yeah, yeah, you know, I, I, I.

You know you guys haven't performed it yet?

No. That song.

What is it? What does What does the song

Bloodless mean to You? Pushing through what life will

want to constantly throw at you, whether it be small or large.

You could compare you know look at Nori's situation a few years

back. His, you know, Kristen's

situation got so bad and he's he is in a true, traumatic and true

situation of fighting through a very big and very real thing

that anybody on earth would be sympathetic to.

Absolutely. Your wife's mortality, Exactly.

Which you guys have. Again talked about on stage you

know and and thank goodness we're on the other side of it

now it's it's some good things to talk about and all that you

know that the last night of his beard, right.

Yeah. Fantastic.

But yeah. I I So you look at something

like Nori's situation, where anybody that's not a complete

subhuman piece of trash would be completely understanding and be

like, Oh my God, people will rally everything else but as you

go down, less severity but still very real scenario.

I'm not mentally doing well. I can't communicate it.

I can't explain it, but I really need help.

And I feel like I'm drowning. There's an elephant foot on my

chest. I can't breathe.

I can't. I'm going through this.

I can't see a way out. People become less sympathetic

about it. And I'm not trying to slander

humanity here or whatever, but you very much know that it's

not. People aren't doing a GoFundMe

for stuff like that, or or rallying around people giving

sympathy, trying to bring, you know what?

What can I do? Can I bring you a dinner

tonight? Can I take you out?

Can I take care of you? What can I do?

Yes. Bloodless to me encompasses

whether you're going through something extreme, like with

what Nori went through, or just as extreme but much quieter as

to some of either the friends I've lost or people I've known

that have have have gone and what people are going through on

a daily basis. And there's so much of us going

through. And I think the age of

technology and seeing this all the time, seeing what you don't

have and seeing what you you lack in life has done in such a

passively yet such an aggressive way that you just feel like

you're never going to get out of this blender And you're getting

sucked deeper and deeper and your only way out is what?

Right. So Bloodless to me is like, you

need to scream. You need to yell, You need to

reach, you need to communicate, You need to fight.

You need to punch a wall. You need to do whatever you can

to fight, right, Because you cannot succumb and give to that.

And for that to be a reality, you need to let somebody know.

You need to communicate with somebody.

To me, Bloodless is that because you feel the power of it.

I haven't done many songs. Like every song that I've been a

part of from the band was about half of, maybe 60% of 40

elephant songs. And a lot of the heavier drum

stuff, you can kind of start to identify the stuff I've been.

But this album specifically, I like the intro to it again.

Have you heard it? Yeah, Yeah.

Just like I literally in the studio stood up and like just

absolutely. Like I just leaned into the

drums. I was trying to.

I beat them like they owed me money, right.

Like it was all about that power and and Travis is such a Prince

with like knowing he's such a wizard.

He just knows how to get the sounds open to a level.

Like it's like listening to Tom Lord allergy.

Like record. Like it's just the the the power

and the drive behind the song. This thing needs to come out

punching. I want a song that can resonate

with people where they can punch, cry, scream and just feel

and express through it live or in their own house or wherever

in their car, but have an outcome where they can go.

All right. I showed emotion to this.

I don't. I'm not because I think the most

dangerous thing with with mental health is when people become

emotionless and people start to fade away and fade out

altogether. It's not so much the people that

are always yelling and screaming and and boisterous about their

situation. People that get quiet are found

in history where it's like there's some that's when shit's

real excuse my French they and so I.

For Bloodless, it's just such AI.

Just hope it's a song that somebody could listen to and

just be like, I'm either going to go work out or I'm going to

do something for myself where I I just want to punch, scream,

cry, kick, yell, whatever and emotionally do that to a point.

Sorry. I know I'm probably going over

here to a point. When I get on that stage, I'm

going to war with my boys. There's 140 people in here from

different walks of life, all going through different things

in life. I could not possibly know what

all of those things are in one show, but I hope that one thing

I might do on that stage is leave them feeling better and

more hopeful towards life. At least happy.

It really is why what you see from me is so consistent.

And you saw you said you've seen 10 shows.

Any one of those ten shows have. I looked like I mailed it in,

mentally or emotionally, and I refuse to.

People that are going through shit way worse than me are

coming here and they need something.

They need anything. And if I can just simply and

it's drums, it's I. But think about it.

How many of us listen to music? How how many people walk this

earth where music's a part of their life?

OK, so therapy, right? So then I if my drumming can

give them just a little bit of a nudge in the direction of like,

holy shit, I forgot about my problems tonight.

I had such a good night feeling maybe more hopeful.

I met somebody in the band. I know that's.

I've never been. I've tread carefully with that

statement because it's like, I don't think that anybody is any

more important than anyone else. And I know when I get off the

stage sometimes people are always like you are A and people

treat me like and I'm like. Really quickly, like, like.

If I don't, I don't. Do that.

You're you're not. Yeah.

Like. I no, because I My biggest pet

peeve in life is when people act like they're better than

everybody else, or anybody else really, for that matter.

We are all equal on this earth. We are here to enjoy as many

days we are given and try to enjoy it with those that we love

and try to build on the people who we love.

I'm. Going to set the stage and tell

a story at one of the shows that I saw at the end of the show.

You are at somebody very special on stage and and you put them

behind your kit and there's some special need there.

Jay's. Yeah, Jay's.

And and I I don't want to. Yeah.

OK. No, hey, no.

Jay's and Suki, his mom, beautiful people.

Jay's Down syndrome. And he came to me about three

years ago. And his mom's like, we've tried

getting him lessons before and teachers haven't really, really

been able to work with them. I have some history and

education and being able to work with special needs kids.

And I said, yeah, let's give it a shot.

I actually have ATV in my classroom so that I can teach

them visually because with Down syndrome kids, you can actually

teach them quite effectively if you give them a visualization to

follow along with. They're not big on sheet music.

They're not going to process like we do in that scenario.

But let me tell you something really quickly.

People with Down syndrome are the most beautiful, open, loving

people that I've ever met. And the positivity that exudes

from them on such a consistent basis, if we could tap into that

in our own lives, like I I seriously, I might be

hyperbolic, but I I just. I feel like we could fix

humanity in ways. Oh yeah, because Jay's is such a

happy kid. He just he loves drumming and he

loves Michael Jackson. And so we I, Jonathan Moffat's

got music videos of him, which is Michael Jackson's drummer and

he plays along with Jonathan Moffat, which he could play

along with me and he does, but he plays to somebody who's his

hero and he plays the Michael Jackson song and over three

years he's you heard him play. He's good.

Not just no. OK, so after you guys finished,

you brought him up on stage and the whole crowds.

That I wasn't prepared for, that was incredible.

We've got, I've got, I don't know if you've seen the video,

but. I've got the video of it.

I I I blew my mind because Jayz came up and he goes, he goes, he

goes Buddy Justin, can I play your drums?

And I'm like, yeah, because I'm like anybody Buddy Justin, he

goes me Buddy Justin every time. So he goes, he goes like Buddy

Justin, can I play your drums? And I go, I said yes, Jayz.

And I know two things with Jay's is that if I say yes to him,

he's going to play for the next hour and a half.

And secondly is that he's not going to hold back.

He's just going to go. He's got probably something in

his head and he's going to play along with it and but.

Then you put him in this environment, in this room.

Sorry to interrupt. Well, no he.

Put him in this, this room with that energy after you guys just

played and he got up there and went for it.

Yeah, it was awesome. And everyone fed off.

That yelling. Oh, very much, very much.

So that was the coolest thing for me.

And what I wasn't expecting, what I was expecting is, and

maybe it was a negative way to expect this, but I was expecting

if people were at after maybe 10 minutes or something, Jay was

going to be like, OK, well, let's wind this down because

people are drinking the glass. And yeah, like, no, no, no, no.

None of that happened. That whole place, like started

rocking. We're standing there.

I'm like, it meant so much to me because I was like, yes, this is

what we can be as a society. This is what this can look like.

And I really don't believe that they were cheering for him

because he had Down syndrome. I really believe the fact that

this kid just got up and started rocking because that's.

And what does music do for all of us?

What can it do for us? It can bring us together,

everything, everything. So for me to see that response

was like special too, because I know how much work he's put in.

So for him to see that response, it's funny because he's got such

a he's got such as natural confidence, like he was

expecting it. I assume that he was waiting for

like a 10 minute standing hole, but such a sweet kid.

So he gets to the end and finally and finally peels off

people freaking losing their mind.

Yep, Yep, most memorable part of the night.

It was fantastic and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I love that. As we bring it to a close,

Justin, you are a proper man. I just, I appreciate you, you're

you're a member of the band as a proper man, but the way that you

live your life as an example, you're also you're a proper man

and I appreciate that very, very much about you.

Is there anything you want to finish on here?

Is there anything that that is left unsaid you?

Know if you've stumbled or come across this video or you're

watching it and you're feeling not right or in a vulnerable

place. Please download that app.

Please. Please reach out to somebody

because you know there are toxic people.

I'm sure in your life everybody has the toxic people around them

that that won't listen. But I promise you there's going

to be a couple people that will will get, will lend an ear and

at the very least these guys here, and he changes.

They're not playing. They'll they'll they'll lend

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They'll give you a path to getting back on your feet

because there's nothing masculine about not talking

about what you're going through and hiding what you're doing.

That is a complete fairy tale and it's an awful one.

Be strong and who you are and being strong and who you are as

being vulnerable and talking about what you what you're going

through. When you're at your weakest,

that's when you can be your strongest and that's when you

reach out. So I really please encourage you

to talk, to reach out, to call somebody and and download this

app because it is very simple and easy to use.

I'll sell. This sounds like a sell but it's

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How you feeling? Great.

Feel like shit. Just go there and take it from

there. And it's just like, because

nobody's better than anybody else.

No matter what Instagram tells you, when you wake up in the

morning, you have as much value as Elon Musk does.

OK, like that's it's anything. Anybody else, you.

Everybody is equal. Everybody has equal value.

That includes you. So no matter where you're

feeling and where you're at in life and how hard things have

gotten against you, you're valuable and you have.

So much to give to other people around you.

You just can't see it right now. So fight to get to the position

where you can see it. That's what I have to.

Say.