Jason Parkes on Music, Entrepreneurship, and The Proper Man Conversations

Transcript supplied via Spotify RSS.

Welcome to Heat Cast, the official podcast of He Changed

It. As always, I am Mike Chisholm as

always. I am so excited to be here and

to talk about the world of men's mental Wellness in all of the

facets and pathways that we explore in that topic.

Obviously, we are the official podcast of He Changed It.

If you haven't downloaded the He Changed It app, what are you

Waiting for? It has never looked better.

Things are happening behind the scenes.

It's, I know I'm a broken record when it comes to that, but it's

just really exciting to watch this thing grow.

And at the end of the day, you know he changed.

It is the first men's mental Wellness platform that has been

created and we're incredibly proud of of what's been

happening and what is going to happen now.

We have been in partnership for some special episodes of he cast

with a company called Telus for the Canadians.

You know what Telus is for other people around the world, you

might not necessarily know who they are.

Telus is a massive, massive communications company in

Canada. Cell phone provider, broadcast

television provider, massive Internet provider.

And we went into and did a very cool program with Telus and in

it the result was 5 amazing episodes of he cast, which we

are now going to put out on our platform here.

The episodes are with a band, The band is called Proper Man

and a proper man is a local band from Kelowna, BC and all five

members have a story. The entire band has a story.

And so as a narrative, all five episodes tie in together kind of

like Voltron, you know a whole bunch of robots coming together

to make one super robot, kind of like that.

Each episode is amazing and I'm so proud of the work that we

have done. I'm so proud to be friends with

these guys and it's a pretty special story.

So without further ado he cast the official podcast of He

Changed it would like to present a proper man the he cast

conversations. Welcome to he cast the official

podcast of He Changed It. This episode is a lot of fun to

create an introduction for because Jason parks in many

respects he is the backbone of proper man.

He just is. He is a very successful

businessman here in Kelowna owns wineries and and and other

projects but he's also an artist and and I love that Jason has

found a way to take the idea of commerce and the idea of art and

and and put them together. He was a winemaker but with

visions of of building really cool stuff and he has built

really cool stuff of his wineries.

One of which is crowned thieves. Crowned thieves of course.

Downstairs has a Speakeasy. The Speakeasy is called the

Broken Hearts club. It is an unbelievable room and

and that room of course houses proper man.

They get they literally have a house.

They're the house band for this amazing Speakeasy and and Jason,

the thing I love about Jason is that he is unabashedly imperfect

and that's what he says. You know he he's the first

person to do self deprecation and and and and and downplay

much of the success that has come from these visions that he

has had and and and I just appreciate him so much because

you know it takes guys like that to make this world run.

It just does but at the same time the humbleness that he has

is is is unbelievable. I appreciate Jason Parks so much

the lead singer and the really the backbone behind proper man.

The guy who is is is has driven the bus and I mean works so

seamlessly with these other four guys.

Jason Parks is a special special dude and it is an incredible

privilege to present the he cast conversations with proper man

lead singer founder Jason Parks. I'm not nervous for this one.

I'm excited. For this one, this is awesome.

I'm so glad that we've been able to pin you down and actually get

you here to have a conversation. I was late.

Oh. No, no, that part, that part I'm

saying because the life that you lead is such that it is

difficult to pin you down. The staff have used the term

parks time a couple of times that I've heard in our

interactions and our getting to know each other.

I've heard parks time a couple of times.

You got a lot of stuff going on, Jason.

Yeah. You got a lot of stuff going on,

yeah, personally, professionally and and and all of those things

mixed together, family as well, of course.

But you've got a lot of stuff going on.

Yeah. Can we go through kind of the

list right now of of of some of the things that you have.

So, OK, wine maker. Wine maker.

But I don't want to. That's the most romantic word

for me, but definitely have been a wine maker.

OK, I'm a wine maker. And that's what started.

This, but the last few years I have a team of people that

worked with me from the beginning, that are taking over

that duty that are I would. I probably say they're better

than me at what I'm making now. So I'm not in the cellar every

day. My goal was to build ship stuff,

sorry, and get back into the cellar and have red hands again.

But I don't know if I'll get there.

Like this year or just at some point in your life, in my life.

It was always to build cool stuff that was everyone could be

proud of them. And then I go hide in the cellar

with the barrels again. And I don't know if my path is

going to take me back there. I I hope it will in some way,

yeah. But I've bit off more than I can

chew on those days, so. Well, building cool stuff.

I mean, this gets to the other half dozen big things that

you're doing or so. OK, so but you love the wine

making and you still. That's still.

It was, yeah. It's savior.

Wow. It's a story there.

Yeah. Well and I I kind of want to get

to that. I want to get to the to to how

that started because that's kind of a for lack of a better term

organic really, really cool organic way that you got into

that. I I love that part of your story

too. I mean you have so many layers

that we could go with when it comes to this obviously proper

man is where we're we're taking this particular project but

there's so many other dimensions to what it is that you you have

done. But let's just OK, so the wine

maker thing, that's a passion. Maybe we get to that and this

one, maybe we don't. But then you started building

cool stuff. And by by building cool stuff,

many different aspects of that, businesses included.

Yeah. So let's start with the

businesses, cuz how many wineries do you have now?

That we I work with and have and I and I want it to be known.

I'm not like some big pocketed wallet rich guy.

I'm involved with them and I have pieces that I own a little

bit and stuff like that, but there's some support there, so I

don't want people to think that I'm this.

OK. What's the brand?

Let's The brand is Jason Parks. Custom brand is Jason Parks

Custom. But where it did start out in

was a was a was a. The brand was called seller Ham

Wines when I was by myself. So not to get too far into the

wine making thing, but what led me to here was making wine but

then helping people develop brands and ideas, helping people

achieve their own dreams. So I called it seller hand.

It's a name for a helper in the seller.

Yeah. But in my world it was a way of

giving people a hand to make their dreams and to build brands

and stuff. So that's where it all started.

Yeah, conceptually was me just, you know, making 15 bucks an

hour and making wine. But say hey, I got a brand idea

for you and try this and and maybe the seller should look

like this and don't. I got involved in that very

early and helped a lot of wineries that are existing today

start up when I was younger in my in my career.

Have you, I mean, growing up in in Kitimat, was helping people

something that was you were just born with that's a gift or

that's a that's a passion you've always just had?

Yeah, a passion for sure. Like I never knew I wasn't that

good in school. I was a dreamer, musician for

sure. Stars.

I thought for sure I was going to be a rock star. 100% believed

it. So I didn't.

I went and I didn't learn very well.

And my backup plan when I was younger was to work with

disabled kids. It was to do, there's always

things like that, that my heart went to where I'd be

comfortable, where I felt I had value.

So yeah, in a way. But then I learned through the

years that that's just also, I think helping people.

You're helping yourself just as much.

So it's not like I sit there going that I want to help people

do stuff and go, oh you're you're such a nice guy because

there's something that that's giving me that I'm grateful that

I have that opportunity for. Yeah.

So it's a two way two way St. I'm a big fan of David Letterman

and one of the things that he has said is is people have have

talked to him about giving and helping other people and whatnot

and and and he has many times, much like yourself trying to

compliment you, it's trying to like hold a slippery fish.

It's really tough to do that with some of these people.

Letterman's one of them and people have said that to him

about being generous or helping people, helping hand what you're

talking about here. And he just brushes it off and

goes. It's a selfish pursuit.

It's selfish because it makes you feel so darn good when you

help somebody. And it's it is, it is literally

a secret to life. If you can show somebody on a

small level, on a big level, like a dream coming true level,

if you can be an usher of something like that, there is no

better feeling. Than, no, it's massive.

Yeah, it's a huge thing. But it's not selfish.

No. It makes the world a better

place. I.

I know, OK. But in my mind I have to look at

it like you can't. I don't know.

I don't know how to say you don't ever want to sit there and

look at yourself and think, well look what I've done for that

person. It's like what are we doing

together as people? Because if I'm giving that thing

over and I'm driving home back in the day in my old Datsun beat

up car and I showed someone a wine and can't with a name and

they started to get tear out. Well, I'm bawling my eyes on the

way home because they gave me that feeling right.

So I got very addicted to that and wanted to do that.

And it's not a I'm not saying it because again, to be like some

good person, it's just nobody's already accused.

Of frightening Jason. It's OK.

It's just, it's just what I was into.

It was really enjoyable. It felt really good.

Just like I like to write songs because I want to make people

feel something. It's it's coming from the same

spot. But yeah, it's the most

egotistical thing you can do is get on that stage.

In my time, look at me and I'm going to sing to you.

But I love it when I look out and someone's got some teary

eyes. That's that's what it's all

about. Yes.

Well, the emotional response that comes from music, I've I've

said it many times. It's to me, I think of some of

the best. I'm literally covered in

goosebumps right now because I think I was about to say I think

of some of the best concerts I've ever been to in my life

that I'm thinking about 20 years later.

And it literally is the same thing to me as a religious

experience. Yes, it can be almost out of

body, right? Very, very much.

Floating. There's a thing about it, and if

you can make somebody feel that, then you're very fortunate.

Oh yeah. Yeah, well, and it's a given.

And other members of the band at this point, you haven't seen any

of the other interviews. None of you have seen each

other's interviews at all. Yeah, but it's come up a few

times where the give and take, the being on stage feels so

good, but then you give it back to the audience and you see how

good it makes the audience feel and how almost symbiotic that

experience. Is, yeah.

It's a cool thing. You know, and you've always

been, you've always had music. You just had your foot in the

pool, sometimes deeper than others because as you're

building this cool stuff that you're building, it must be

really, really tough to find the balance.

Yeah, to do that because your businesses and the businesses

that you are a part of. Let's talk about Jason Parks

Customs for a second. Yeah.

What are the subsidiaries of Jason Parks customs?

What are the places the brands inside, inside of that?

What does that encompass? OK.

The Hatch is the number one where we.

So that's a winery. Yeah, that's.

Your first winery. That was the first one that we

tried the stupid idea at it should have been called the

incubator cuz all these things came out of the Hatch.

So and after the Hatch we went over and we did blacksmith which

started at the Hatch. As the egg is representing the

hatching, we've got crown and thieves, which is was an idea

for a long time and the one that I thought had the most potential

to fail. So I did it on my own existing

property to make sure that, you know, if I was going to screw

something up, it would affect me the most personally.

And that's where we are right now, by the way.

That's where the Broken Hearts Club is.

It's at the bottom of. That's why it's called the

Broken Hearts Club. That was all going to go to

shit, sit down and crying along with my drinks, going to go

nowhere. We got Truck 59 which is just

over there. That's a that's a cider.

A cider, Yeah. Yeah, we got that.

That's where you park to come to Crown, and we recently thought

we could try something with smoked meat and beer at the

Hatching Post. And that's the saloon that you

opened. You literally opened a saloon.

Yeah, we've built it and and tried to replicate that type of

energy and visual, yeah. My wife's prediction, and I

don't think it's a, you know, her prediction for you, is that

that a distillery is next and there's going to be your own

spirits inside that saloon. Is she spirits?

Yes. There's a spot that we have and

we call it ghost Notes, because if we do a distillery, it'll be

called that. My son helped me with that idea.

There we go. Yeah, so.

But I. Don't know if I want to do a

distillery, I want to go to Mexico and have tacos.

I'm getting tired distillery to do it right.

Like that's the one thing. Like you look at these places

and they look like, I don't say gimmicky, but they can be like I

I've had some hurtful things. I've heard some hurtful words

about. We're trying to do all these

things because it's not about the wine or it's not about the

beer or the product when really if they only knew how much love

and attention went into that. But if you're going to do

spirits right where I'm going with it, you need time.

And where I'm at right now in my life, I think it it could be

something that we do. But I want to be careful if it's

done, we got to do it very, very, very well and pay respect

to that product. And I don't know cuz I whiskeys

and stuff, I take a bit of time. So I'm not sure if that will

ever happen, but it's been talked about a bit, yeah.

What's the name of it? Ghosts.

Ghost notes. Ghost Notes What?

Can I talk about it? Yes.

So ghosts, Obviously it's a musical thing.

Sure, Yeah. Justin does a lot of ghost

notes. Flavour from the This has notes

of yeah and there's there's that, but what I wanted to.

Do is it's something goes to something that you may not see

or is a past or present thing. So all of the aging and the

things that we be putting into the products of the spirits

would be coming from past. So it could be an old barrel

that is from Hawaiian from 2000. You got notes of that, and the

ghost of that is in that spirit. And it kind of has right now,

yeah. Yeah, it's cool.

It's a cool idea, yeah. And because the idea is cool,

that's why I'm not writing it off.

When you have an idea that just fits and it's got something

special. It's not that I really want to

make whiskey. There's lots you can buy in the

store. But the idea is good and it

might give someone a cool experience.

But I like the branding idea of it for sure.

It could be cool. So this is the part where I got

to say, OK, so there's this part of you as well that loves to

create clearly an artist. I mean, we're talking about

proper man with the music and whatnot.

We're going to talk lots about that.

But these businesses you've created, I mean, like, again, I

know it's not braggadocious, it's not ego driven.

I'm just curious because you didn't come from an

entrepreneurial background and money and all this.

So you came from a small town in northern BC Yeah.

And and and and yet you are this entrepreneur that has how many?

Like how many employees do you have?

In the summertime there's probably 150, a 150.

People working and I. And again, I'm going to say it

because I know you probably won't.

I know how much you care about these people that work for you.

I know that you want to make their, you want make their lives

better, whether they're with you for a season.

No, no pun intended. Or or or people who have like

linked arms with you and are like.

And you have those too. You have people who have seen

the vision of what you're doing and wanted to follow and be part

of this that. That that part of my little

journey has been the most where I suck the most.

I sincerely do care about everybody, but I've done a very,

not a very good job of always making sure that everyone could

feel it because there is so many people or people don't get it.

It's a weird company in that way because I am this, it's not ran

like I have a guy helping me. I call him my smart guy.

His name's Graham. He's really smart because the

way that I kind of run it, it is about culture, it is about

caring. It is about growing people.

Like I got an opportunity and I always want to do that because

again, it's the helping thing, which as Dale Lehman says, it's

it's for selfish as well selfish pursuit.

And I've tried to do that and I've I've there's some great

stories. There's some great successes,

but I've got my failures too. And I'm still learning on how to

manage myself, on how to grow somebody.

Because sometimes growing somebody doesn't mean that I'm

sitting there having a coffee with them everyday, right?

It could be doing it in a way that doesn't help them grow in

the company that I'm running and they don't like me anymore.

But the lesson they took will help them later.

And that has been hard. That's been hard.

That's that's parenting that's friendship that's I mean like my

best friends that I've had in my life are the ones who are you

know that's that's that's I mean takedown to love you.

If you truly love somebody, you let them go.

If they come back there like you know that that like that's a

really pure intention that you're talking about and and

pure intentions many times don't end up.

No. And it's been it's been a

learning thing, cuz I actually thought I might be pretty good

at it. And that's one thing that I've

learned. I I I'm still gonna, I'll never

learn how to do it perfectly. But I do try my best to have a

culture for people that they feel accepted.

They can be creative, they can be a punk rocker, they can be an

outcast, they can suck, they can learn, they can make mistakes,

they can do it all and they're sheltered to do it and grow.

As long as they're a good, honest person, I will stick with

them, you know, till the end. But it's been a learning process

on how to do that correctly, that it's benefiting the human,

I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

And the big picture? Yeah, their big picture.

That's right. Yeah, there you go.

Not, not, not the JPC picture necessarily.

Yeah, and that's what I figured out.

And that part is much less, It's definitely much less thankless,

cuz they won't even know if you're doing it.

And I thought before, well OK, I get to feel good today, cuz it's

no you don't. It doesn't work that way.

It works differently than that. And that's been a real

interesting thing to learn about.

Still learning. What about owning, being a

business guy? Because you clearly, you enjoy

branding, you think about ideas for other people, you think

about these, you know, it's just you can't turn the switch off.

Yeah, that happens. Yeah, you do it for yourself.

You've done it for others, that kind of a thing.

Owning these businesses and having these endeavours.

What are what are some of your favorite parts of it?

Is it the creativity? Again, I'm going to go back to

the yes. Yeah there's like I loved

putting this place together sitting on the graph paper

annoying the you know architects and the builders everyday and

you know having an old fashioned one.

It's like yeah it's it's just I'm so lucky because my brain is

is pretty busy up there so that's when I feel a a calmness

is when I'm doing a lot but it is it does come back down to and

it it sounds like I'm over going on about it too much.

It is the people that's seeing the the growth in humans, people

buying in and. Growing in their own life over a

period of, you know, 24567 years.

Conquering things that like, I'm gonna like to think about that

when I'm all done. I'm not gonna think about the

the bears on the ceiling right. That's just a couple whiskies.

Everyone thinks so. That should go.

It's the humans and their development for me that has been

definitely very, very beautiful, very cool.

That's an interesting thought because you know, as creative as

you are and as much of A, you know, create creator as you are.

Imagine you doing that in a white room where you just let

your brain do its thing and you have access to anything that you

want to do that a replicator or you know, whatever you want to

call it, a 3D printer that would do anything that your mind

desires or your heart desires. If you don't have the people, it

doesn't sound like you have the fuel.

Totally. That's that.

It's the it's the collaborative experience as well.

Totally, yeah. And it's the.

Connections like I like. I grew up being in bands, so I'm

used to having a a group, you know, and people like I know a

lot of people, but I don't got a lot of friends.

Like I know a lot of people. I've got a couple that are close

I'm close with, but it's a pretty small group of people

that come to my house, you know? So I'm more comfortable in

groups and I think that I need that group to feel confident in

myself. So if people aren't believing in

themselves and in turn believing back in what I'm doing, it'd be

a lonely, pointless journey. That's a different kind of

person, right? That can be a very ego driven,

self-centered person, which doesn't mean they're a bad

person. Those people can be great people

and do great things, but that's not my DNA.

I'm working on it though, because I'm told I got to get a

bit more like that, but it it it's not my DNA.

You're learning how to take a compliment.

I'm yeah, we're getting there. I well, I I thought I looked

good this morning because of my cauliflower diet.

And why are you on the cauliflower diet?

Because I'm going to Mexico. I want my wife to think I'm hot.

Yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to do it.

I I, I I appreciate the candor. I appreciate the puzzle that you

are because you are you know you're talking about OK well not

a lot of people have gone to my house two of the members of

proper Men have lived in your house and and so to me that's

awesome. It is it.

It really, really is I I. It's so funny how your your

sense of worth is fascinating to me.

I believe papers could be written.

I'm not a I'm not a a therapist or a psychiatrist or

psychologist or whatever. I believe that your personality

is the type where papers could be written because there is so

much pure enjoyment in life. There is so much creativity that

has manifested itself in real things.

These properties all have an energy a personality on their

own. You've collaborated with people

and and done that and and taken much joy in that yet whenever

someone seems to compliment you on that it's immediately put it

pushed aside and and and I'm I'm I'm fascinated by your

definition of self worth. A lot of guys out there at

different age groups, what we talk about these guys that are

in our 40s, that's really where, you know, middle-aged men is

where where this project is, is is what really focused on when

it comes to yourself worth scale of one to 10, where do you feel

that yourself worth is? Never thought of it before.

I don't know. I have to ask other people that

are around. Me.

I don't think that's how it. Works, I know.

No, I don't know. Because everybody else would be

saying you're a 10 out of. Ten.

Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. Like, I I don't know.

I'm very proud of who I am. I like who I am.

OK. I when I was younger it's

getting might get a little bit deeper.

When I was younger I definitely if I was into a doctor the, you

know I would be diagnosed with something that that that young

people would get diagnosed with today, may it be like ADHD or

depression or whatever it is, right.

So I was very quiet. So I didn't talk like this when

I was very young. I was too nervous.

I used to do this thing where I'd be like I almost said you

want some potato. I said no thank you, no thank

you, yeah. I would talk to myself like I

was a little different and as I was getting older and a teenager

and I was trying to do my thing, I would go into very, very dark

depression places and it just like it was, it was scary.

I used to think that I'm not going to live past whatever I'm

just going to, so I'm just going to go hard and play it.

And I did. I left, ran away from home when

I was younger and playing at a bar band with spandex, long hair

and, you know, bands and strippers all on the same floor.

Sorry Christy, I just had happened and I lived a

lifestyle. I was very quiet.

I wasn't like a crazy guy, but I lived a pretty wild lifestyle

because hiding in in this stuff, right?

But what what I'm where I'm going with it is, is I found

later on that the way that I've medicated myself personally is

to be doing a lot. I have to do a lot of things to

keep to get that balance. Where I have that Zen happiness.

I have to be doing immense amount of work to get that

balance. If I don't, I go into a very

depressive type of place. So if you're in a.

Procrastinating slow space. You are in hell, essentially.

Yeah it'll it'll multiply very quickly and the person that

you're talking to is different person.

So that's why when I'm doing all these things everyone thinks oh

wow how do you. It's like I have to like I

that's how I that's how I found my place in the world is is to

be doing a lot of things and and stuff like that.

So I don't know if I answered any question there whatsoever.

No, no, this is. This is, but it is.

That's something that I I think I that I do realize that I will

always find if I can ever talk to someone about.

There's always different advices for things.

But I was I I went through a lot as a kid, like all kids do,

especially nowadays. It's so tough.

You just got to keep. I kept myself very, very busy

and very, very creative and it it saved it.

It definitely saved me for sure. I think about the kids nowadays

and I mean it's a different, it's a different ball game

because it doesn't like you grew up in small town BC, which you

know again pros and cons to everything, absolutely pros and

cons to when we grew up, pros and cons to the kids growing up

now. But one of the the the the

issues that they have to deal with that we never had to once

they get a telephone it doesn't go away.

Like like grade four was my worst year but I had the Cub

Scouts, I had you know the boys and Girls Club that I went to

so. So when I left school there were

other groups or people that I could deal with and have fun

with and and have a completely different experience with than

if I had a a bad time at at that at that school.

Now when they have a telephone, the moment they have a

telephone. I know all it it.

Follows them everywhere and it doesn't turn off.

I know it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking, yeah.

And there's nothing that, like I've tried like the whole take

the phone away thing as a dad, you know, like because I'm old

school and none, none of that for for in my experience, it can

work. It's just something to try to

manage the best you can. But it is definitely, definitely

hard and sad to see that it's going to take these, these

young, beautiful kids so much longer to learn about themselves

because they're distracted by some.

You know what I mean? Yeah, they're not gonna like, we

we all took. I'm still figuring myself out as

it is. And I never had that.

I was playing street hockey and hide and go seek and, you know,

throwing eggs at people and doing bad, doing things,

mischievous, fun things as a kid.

Crazy shit. You know, I never threw eggs at

people. I don't want to try such a bad

ass all the time. Cauliflower diet.

But I think for kids now it's like they get wrapped up in that

and they're just missing out so much on learning about

themselves because it's just what other people are doing and

trying to keep up with things. It's it's it is it's really sad.

It's scary. It's scary.

Well you've distracted yourself by building things and I think

that a lot of these kids are are they've got distraction handed

to them but it's it's not substance based distraction

unless they choose it to be and and that's the good thing at

some point you know when they fall in love with something they

may choose to dive into it and and if they do like I think

about people in my life. I think about you know you know

my step kids and and the the the careers that they have a big

chunk of it was taught to them by YouTube.

You know because if you do want to dive into something and learn

it you can do that without having to leave the small town

to to to hang out with the with the different crowd or whatever

to figure to find yourself as a as a musician.

But it's all a beautiful experience either way and and

and it'll it'll write itself. Yeah, but there is those pros

and cons and it's such a different world.

It is a different world. That's what it is.

At the end of the day. It's just a different time, a

different place and everything. It's just a pretty old school.

Like proper man is nostalgic. I'm so obsessed with growing up

as a kid in a small town. It's in my heart and there's a

special time, right? So I'm very obsessed with that

part of my life. Yeah.

So I get all weird on the phone thing and all that just because

those that way that I grew up in the town that I grew up in.

I'm so lucky. It was so beautiful.

It was a great time to grow up. The well, and that's that's

where I want to talk about, I want to move to the to the to

the music part of this. Because we have a lot of men now

who are in this, this, this time and place of the world changing

to what we just talked about, what we described.

And many of them are terrified to whether they know it or not.

You know, we bottle things down. We're prone to bottle things

down and and and you know we haven't gotten necessarily the

release of that those things that we bottled down and and

music is of course one of the things that I mean it's it's

it's it's obvious with every member of the band and it's

clearly obvious here that that that it's an outlet and it's

something and I think every man you know our age but younger,

the ones who can learn what their outlet is younger that is

a secret to life. Having these outlets are just

100% right. Yeah, it's everything.

I'm trying to work with my children on that right now and

finding their space, what they can do as an outlet.

But yeah, the music is definitely that.

And it didn't start off that way.

I did it because Petri, the guitar player, was in a band

with me growing up and I was, I like to put it so I don't talk

bad about myself, a bit of a a control freak, but a really nice

one. I was a nice control freak, but

I knew what I wanted and I was a songwriter and he was in the

band and he was always there for me.

Petrie, just an easy going guy. Let's have a coffee.

What do you want to do? There's no ego, no nothing.

He's so so for so for so many songs and so many years when we

were very young. We're talking like 25 years ago

and I, you know, before then, but he'd be supportive with me

on songwriting. I got to get these songs out and

we did pretty well. We got to tour Japan together,

we won some awards, blah, blah, blah.

It's a great little band. Petrie went through some stuff

in life that it was. He went through separation and

he came out here. Him and his, his ex partner,

they they moved, they both moved out and he stayed at the winery

house up at First Estate where it was the 1st place I really

got to make wine. I got that place for $3 a year

for three years. Another story.

That was a great place. But what I wanted to do with him

was just get back. I I stopped music because this

wine thing is like I got to learn and I'm not that smart.

Like I'm not like I didn't do good in school.

Like I'm not can't handle. I can handle a lot of my brain.

What's going to be in a creative way.

Wine took a lot as a big responsibility.

So the the music stopped because all that energy was going into.

I got to learn how to do this. I got to get a day job right,

But when Petri came back, it's a hard thing to go through.

I wanted to do something to get his mind off of these things.

So I'll shorten the story. But he would lay down some

chords on the recording unit. Then he'd go to camp.

He's a scientist or something. He still don't know what Petri

really is. He's just a really nice guy.

But I would, I'd be with these chords and I would be OK.

I I got to put music to it, started doing it and I'm like

and I would sing in my old pop punk voice.

And I I just, it brought back bad memories because the music

business, musics, any musician out there knows, you know, tough

world, right. And I was like, yeah, it's not

going anywhere. And then one day I'll admit it,

I had a little bit too many Scotches and I just started

singing with like this English drone and I'm thinking what's

that style I haven't done yet that's fresh.

And it would be New Wave like the Cure.

Depeche Mode. Yeah, all those guys.

So I'm just going to try this. Just me and Pech and I did and I

sent it to him and that's pretty good.

And it just started snowballing and all I ever wanted to do.

Because when you're a musician and you've jumped on that bed up

and down, when you're a kid, when you're 5 years old with

your tennis racket, it doesn't leave.

So even still, before we play shows, we're outside, we're

hugging, teary eyed, Let's kill them guys, Let's do this.

We got this. It's like like the drummers,

like he's ready to put his first through conquer.

It's like we're playing Madison Square Garden and I'm like, holy

shit guys. And I'm crying because that

guy's crying. It's just 60 people and but we

treat it like it's such a powerful thing, right.

Didn't cry really. Like I said, I'm pretty, pretty

tough guy. I throw eggs at people.

That's right. So but where am I going with it?

Where am I going with it. So when he come back it was a

thing to show these songs and these ideas and and the

goosebumps going and he's like Park sees man, we got something

here. Eh go yeah, let me get you a

drink. So he'd go get me a martini,

make it extra dirty pantry, listen to it again, and

everything sounds better with a sip or two.

And like, yeah, we're really good.

Hey, we got something we do but, but.

And we just kept doing that over and over and over.

But the whole point of it was to get his mind off things and for

me to give back for what he did for me, which was getting out

these songs. And I was going through things

in my life with the separation back then, and he was there for

me to get all this music out. Never questioned, never nothing.

So the whole point was just to do some stupid songs with this

weird English accent, which is very strong.

Back in the day, if you could hear it, it was like super

prominent because I was insecure with my own voice and I was just

trying to get some shit going here to get Petri in a happy

place. But that's how it started.

And then it went from one thing to another.

Travis showed up one day and I just said go in the backroom and

take that move and do a keyboard line on this song called

Converse and No Name. And that was in a different

point in Travis life. And I was nervous to come down

and do it in front of the whole room.

And I went up there with him, You got this and came down and

everyone's like jaw dropped and it just, it was a layer.

So the band, how it came together is quite beautiful and

it was never meant to be. It was just meant to do this

thing. I said well I might, I might put

a little room in one of the wineries one day and you guys

get paid some money. So just stick it out for five

years and practice with you once in a while, pretty much right

with most of the guys in the band and and here we are, but we

don't go on that. What it's turned into is a very

strong brotherhood for sure. I love that about this.

I've actually asked a couple of the guys because I mean you know

and we've shown that the Broken Hearts club like we've used the

the analogy of of of home ice advantage.

You know we're all hockey fans. We're all hockey fans.

Yeah you know and and and I don't know of a band and one of

the band members even said yeah, it doesn't mean no matter how

big the band is, who they are, nobody has a home ice advantage

like this. You know never never mind not

having to move gear and all that kind of stuff that all of they

they like that too but they yeah, like like right like like

now they don't have to move their gear.

They have to keep their place here.

All their stuff. It's it's it's their it's their

house. It's the place that they get to

call. Home.

Yeah, it's. It's.

Awesome. And and, and, and I asked them,

I've asked like did as you were, did you think this was

happening? Well, Jason talked about, you

know something, but nobody could envision this.

Yeah. When did you envision?

This oh, from from Well, once proper man started getting

going. If you think about it and you

listen to that old sound and you look at the room, it's all

connected, right? It's all British puppy old.

There's an old thing to it. Even how we dress them.

All that vision came before. So that was there years ago.

Yeah, that was there right away when I started thinking these

songs aren't that bad. And I love hanging out with

Petri again and our connection. Like Petri, Well, hang out.

When we hang out, we don't talk. That's the best kind of friends

for me. Like, hey, buddy, hey, buddy,

how's it going? Talk to you after the game.

That's it. We we're not, like, not social

butterflies. Music is what has brought us

together. Like we're we're we're buddies,

right? The whole band.

But we don't sit around talking about like things that other

people would. We're all cut from a different

cloth a little bit. So the music is the connection.

When I started seeing that and that beauty and you know, you

know Travis and and working with him and then Nori coming in,

went through a few drummers and Justin coming out when the time

Justin was in. I already said I'm going to do

this, but I wasn't sure because we couldn't find that last piece

and I used to be a drummer and we're pretty.

It was a hard time finding that last person and it wasn't the

skill because they're they're good drummers and all.

It was just the the connection, the chemistry.

And these are great guys, but sometimes everything doesn't go

into place. No, the alchemy of this band is

astounding. To me it is.

It's, it's crazy. And usually at that kind of

stuff. I'm always worried that I've got

to nurture it. And I go, that guy's going to be

feeling this. I'll move them over there.

Like I'm always like the guide, a peacekeeper trying to you

don't have to do it in this band.

I can just come over here, my word, stressed out self, every

show and be all awkward and they're all, you got it buddy.

And I'm like, yeah, I don't have to do anything because it's just

it takes care of itself because bands are like, it's like having

any band guy that runs a band knows it's like having like 5

wives, right? And then if the band members

have wives, it's like having 10 because you have to respect the

whole thing. So for bands to be as cohesive

and doing this as much as we are, sure they like the room,

but there's got to be a deeper connection for that to keep

going. And and we found it.

It's pretty, it's very special. Without a doubt multiple members

of the band have talked about how part of that alchemy is that

you you alluded to it. They all bring families to the

table. They all bring experiences to

the table. Those families those experiences

take priority over the ban. Yeah.

And and and you all have that as a code.

Like it's an amazing thing and it's one thing that they all I

believe I have to check the tape but every single one of them

have talked about that's awesome how special it is to them that

that that's what this is. It is.

It's it's their lives take precedence over the actual band

itself and the music. And I mean, there's this

overarching relationship that you have where the personal

stuff is more important, yeah, than the music.

Yeah. And that happened on its own,

like I always do. The model that would work in a

perfect world, you can't make everything work.

Sure, like that. But I sure I said OK, I wanted

to do a couple band dinners in the beginning, but the

connection and the wives connecting and how we've all

connected is it happened very organic.

It's crazy like we've been playing these songs a long time.

Yeah, we still love playing them so much.

It's not the songs, it's each other.

It's that. It's that.

It's that time up there together.

Right. Yeah.

It's a magic energy that that you guys feel and and and my my

contention every time I've heard that whether I've said it out

loud or not is that well that shows in the music like that's

an extra layer or two of any song that you write or perform

because you have if you have a bass like that that base is

going to create layers of depth that just wouldn't be created in

in other bands. And I'm not saying other bands

I've I've I've been a fan of bands where all the members hate

each other and that provides an energy too.

Totally it does but it just does not seem to be the energy of

what proper man is including the title of the band like the the

the name of the band proper man and all of you.

None of you would in in fact you're not even close.

Would would would any of you ever, you know, try and come

across that you're perfect. In fact, none of you would.

You're all the other. You're all the exact opposite.

The self deprecation is crazy that you all have.

But the band is called Proper Man and it almost seems like I

don't want to call it like a war cry.

But it almost seems like this is where we would like to get to.

Like, it's like a the name of the band is the goal.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you. Yeah, that's cool.

I don't know. I don't know if that's the case

or not, but that's just what it feels like.

It's like you are all aspiring to be.

Proper men while. Doing this, yeah, I think that

is it. But me like not understanding

fully what words mean when I and it's it's true if you read the

lyrics sometimes like that word doesn't make sense but it's got

the right syllables. Automatic.

Poetically, it sounds perfectly. Yeah, yeah.

But the proper man thing it does.

That's a that's a much cooler thing.

And I guess in a way that is what it is.

But in the beginning it was just about doing this thing because I

was kind of working with Petri couple.

We named the van back then. Yep.

We're really into just this whole Petrie.

And I just think a lot of our our dads too, and the old school

way of how it used to be and respect and just doing things on

a handshake and just an unwritten thing that I think may

have been a bit more in the older days than than than now in

some instances. So we were really into that kind

of stuff and then the whole imagery thing and all that.

But that connection that you're saying is that makes a lot of

sense. I mean, that's cool.

That's just what it seems to be building into.

And it's just it's such a, it's such a cool thing.

I like the. Name more now.

Oh, there you go. Yeah, there you go.

Well it it sure made sense for the for this totally like it's

like Oh my gosh, the band is even named proper man.

Everything is on brand and on brand is like that's your,

that's your middle. Name I know, but you just

branded better than me this, but that that is what it's that's

what's happening. That's what the end game is

happening. It's just it started out as

something much more simpler in the back then, right?

Because we never really pictured doing this like this and I

almost never did this at the end.

So I'm just like, I don't really got much money left my midlife

crisis. Get on that.

You know what I mean? Like, and I'm so grateful we did

it and and it and it's and it's work too.

Like this guy's got to drive all the way over the bridge most

Saturdays, even myself. Like you got life, you got

things. And there's days where I'm like,

I'm just nervous that I'm not going to do a good job so that

I'm stressed out all day. And like I say, it's not a, you

know, at most we got 100 people in here.

I won't say the real numbers because it's against the Fire

regulation. Sure, Absolutely.

Yeah, 100 people. 100 people less, less.

But it it's it's a major. It's a major thing every time we

play and sometimes it can be hard like just open the door and

walking in because it because I'm not I'm not also personally

not the most super common person.

When I get on the stage I have to leave behind and the band

makes sure I do it. It's a different person.

Like it's his name's Norm. It's my middle name and Norm is

the singer when he's on the stage and that guy has to come

out. And sometimes I do things that

are stupid, like and I get mad every time like I'll talk to,

hey, everybody else that's not like me, I'll say the F word.

Yeah, I don't want to say the F word, but I have to breakthrough

my comfort to let go to make myself vulnerable takes a few

minutes and I stress about it every Saturday.

It's not me like when I was back in the day when I was had to be

wine maker dinners, 2 weeks, man, two weeks of stress.

I don't want to sound gross, but on the toilet stress like I'm

not not doing good. I am not.

I don't like that. I don't.

I'm not good at that. And now like playing guitar and

writing songs is great. Now I'm a singer and I got no

guitar. Are you kidding me?

It's nuts. I don't want to do up there.

I'm flat my head. I'm trying to sing.

It's it's very stressful. So I I worry about it all day.

But then when I get up there it seems to be OK and it is the

band, but it's also the audience.

Like I look out, you know you can always can have the odd guy

that might think we suck which is fine.

But there's a lot of smiles. There's a lot of happy faces and

there's a lot of people that are my age or a little bit younger

guys, they're looking. I know what they're thinking.

They're thinking look at that asshole up there doing what he

wants to do. You know what I mean?

In a good way. Look, he's up there.

He's doing he's doing it. He's he's living.

He's got it though and and hopefully you know that can kind

of maybe if that ever rubs off on someone just to just to give

her bullets if I care too much or over thought things even

though I'm suit it's weird because I am insecure.

I didn't know if this place was going to work I I still like I'm

I'm like that but you have to you might as well go you might

as well go for it when you open up that whole vulnerability of

letting it all go and just jumping off and going for it.

One thing I have learned is that people like that they they

they're cheering for you, yes. It's not like any a.

Percentage are, yeah, but we listen to the other percentage

so many times, but the percentage that are cheering for

you are there too. Right.

I know. And it could be 50 that are

cheering. And the one person that's like,

well, Jason Kent's saying he's a fraud.

That guy doesn't know what he's doing.

And I'm like in the dumps forever, right?

So you get scared of that. But at the end of the day, I'm

learning more and more. It's just you got to outweigh

those numbers and you know you just got to you just got to, you

just got to go for it. And that word vulnerable is the

thing. If I didn't learn about that

earlier on, I think maybe from doing the wine dinners.

I've just, I I wasn't good at them and I just kind of opened

up and went for it and was myself, which is kind of a weird

awkward babbling duck like I am today with you.

People loved it. They won't be my friend.

They want to talk like, OK, well, maybe they like me if I

just talk, just go for it. So I've done that with

everything. It's just just kind of do it.

Throw shit at the wall, give her bullets and just hope it all

works out. And when you put yourself there,

people, they're they're cheering for you.

I think more are than not. Well, it's inviting.

You know, when when I see somebody pouring their heart out

over something, and I mean you think about this wine that you

have slaved over for how how long?

You know an entire season through all the different

incarnations of of the process and and and and now you're

presenting it to a room full of people and you're talking about

the process and what it led to what they have right in front of

them and and and and the work that went into that.

You're you're you're giving of yourself you're doing that and

and and when somebody is up there doing that a great

percentage of people who are the recipients of that information

now feel permission that they can open up.

And I'm certain we haven't talked about this beforehand.

I I want to know pre interview from this you know for this very

reason that organically this stuff can come up.

I'm certain that people would stand up after those things come

to you and start telling you personal stuff about them,

because vulnerability invites other vulnerability.

You're right. They are connected for sure.

You know, I think that's where I found.

Yeah, that that's kind of where I found where I said that that's

helped this even though like I was rocking.

I could rock 3000 people in a van playing guitar back of the

day, jumping up and down. Yahoo, go to a wine makers

dinner in front of 50 people, couldn't sleep for two weeks.

But then I learned how to do it where it's just like opening

that whole thing up and just being real about it.

That and finding that that worked Well, maybe I can

renovate a garage and call it the Hatch.

Maybe I can put animal heads on a wall.

I don't know, I can. I don't have to overthink or

have expectation of myself when I'm doing things.

And I'm lucky for me. I've surround myself with really

good band guys and good employees and good people.

That all my stupid shit looks good.

That's all it is. You're just kind of going for it

and that so that that's a real thing that did you know?

And I think that what when you say that it because I remember

doing those dinners and people coming up that were attached to

because there was all I had was passion.

All I had when I learnt why I didn't know what I was doing, it

was I I got into it because quick I won't get.

Into that this is good. Tour with my punk rock band and

The Van Broke Down and I'd make some money to fix the van.

Went in there and worked in the vineyard for two weeks.

The owner was sort of really crazy, blessed his heart.

I I without without that guy. They put me in the cellar.

They let the winemaker go and I got my $8 raised to 8 bucks and

a set of keys for Chevy and said there I was managing the place

and they went back to Ontario and I was left there to figure

it out. That's scary shit.

How old were you that summer? I'm not good with numbers.

Sure, 28. Yeah, I don't know, maybe that's

wrong. My wife will correct me later.

But I spent like time in there learning, right.

There wasn't a whole bunch of Google.

There was no confidence, there's nothing.

I just had to figure things out and I learnt by just kind of

going for not scared to make mistakes.

I remember putting a whole bag of low fat skim milk in a thing

of white wine because I did a test and it curdled and it

brought the oxidation out and ripped it to the bottom and I

took it off and then I rebuilt it with like Acacia, wood chips

and just crazy shit, you know? But if you don't do that, you

don't try these things forward. And then I I what I did where

people took to me and where my career is, I just celebrated

those things. I didn't try to say, well, you

know, this is what I did. You owned it.

You guys. I'm like, if you guys only you,

you're suckers because what I I don't know nothing.

And This is why and just kind of introduce that part of it.

People minds were like alone cuz the wines were winning awards,

they were doing things. But it was just I come from a

different place of learning and have anyone to teach me and I

had to kind of go through it all.

So I think that helped and it's yeah, I think that just helped

the whole journey, right. It allowed me to do what I'm

doing now. The courage that you show in

doing that, and it's just you living your life, it's probably

freeing by the way, because you know, certain people learn

certain ways other ways. But most of us can probably

relate to an experience where we learn a certain way and we were

under the whether it's as an employer or was a student,

whatever. We're under the tutelage or the

the authority of somebody who teaches things completely

different than the way that we learn it, right?

And you being given that freedom and taking on the responsibility

of going, OK, well, I want to get something done, but you get

to do it the way that you want to do it.

What a freeing concept that is. That's.

What I how lucky I am like to have that there's no one else.

There's a guy in the store helped me out back in the day

and he was actually better than I was pretty quick.

But yeah, I I got to I got to have that.

I'm so lucky. That's why I said in the

beginning of the thing like about wine and and how it it, I

wouldn't say save me, but it definitely, I don't know.

I I just don't know where I would have where I would have

ended up. Yeah, the trajectory had put you

on clearly. Yeah, it found me for sure.

Yeah, I don't, I don't know, it's it's scary to think so.

My, my, like when you look at the little JPC logo, it's a

barrel with wings and a a crown and the crown is representing in

my mind it's probably wrong because most weird stuff these

days with, you know, royalty. But to me it was about the wine

being the boss and the wings that were giving me something

more in in my life to do getting me off the ground.

But it was always based around that, right, the wine.

And it was also like it was seven years in that cellar on my

own when I was learning super lonely.

The joke is I did have beautiful.

Well, I thought it was beautiful.

A long hair and then it was gone after those 7.

Years. It's ironic, to say the least.

Yeah, but that was a that was a lonely, lonely journey and and

lots of failures and and and successes, I guess you could

call it. But yeah, I'm just so grateful

for that day that that person let me give me a job to work in

the vineyard and. Sounds like you're grateful for

the failures, too. Yeah, more so for sure.

And that isn't that something that I.

Think I remember those. Those were more memorable, like

we have a a bedpan at the Hatch where all the awards go.

So when we got to win a win award, it goes in the bedpan and

there's some good awards in there and it's nothing against

the award. People No.

No. It's just that's not what it's

about. And you can stay humble.

Yeah. And it's about it's also a

policy and and not a policy, but it's a culture in the company

where you know and we stopped, we're going to go back into them

this year a little bit just to see how we do.

We stopped doing those award things because, yeah, it's just

a different view on the whole thing.

Yeah, I got a call a couple days ago, somebody wanting to get me

to be a wine judge in Washington state.

I guess they voted crowd thieves as one of the wineries to watch

in Canada this year. Something fancy like that.

Yeah. So speaking to the team, I was

supposed to this year do a bit more interviews and get out

there because I stopped doing them and just want to hide and

do my thing. Oh, I know.

Yeah. It's like pulling teeth getting

to this day. Happening now I'm talking.

I could tell him to talk for five years.

Let it out. Unleash the hounds, buddy.

Talking about eggs and shit, where was I?

But yeah, they they were, they were.

They went, yeah. And I said, well, you know, I

don't know if I'm the right judge.

I said, but because all these fancy wire makers from all over

the States, I can have a Negroni beside me while I'm tasting the

wines, I'll consider being a judge.

They just, I didn't know whether to take me serious or not.

It was just a joke. Yeah, but to have a cocktail

there. But I just.

But the point is that whole vulnerable thing that I get to

say, those kinds of things that make people laugh and be that

kind of person, that is just, that's what my mind's saying.

Like if someone asks you something, you might be saying

something different in your mind.

I get to say whatever comes, you let it out.

And I'm so grateful for that. And that came from learning

about that whole vulnerable moment to these wine makers,

dinners. Now that allows me, even though

I was a musician first, to get on that stage and sing and I

learnt that from getting through those things.

I appreciate you talking about you know because we're going to

get to proper man more here but I appreciate you giving us this

context of of how you think because it really is a it really

is an amazing mind that you have with with the achievements yet

the self-confidence thing and and and you've done a really

good job of of kind of explaining that a little bit

fronting a band. I mean I I and I I hope I'm not

telling tell that out of school here I I I you know please

please please you know admonish me if I am you don't you have an

amazing presence on stage I've watched you rock the house

multiple multiple multiple times.

You have fans that sing every single word with you and are

like whether it's their fifth time or their 50th time of you

fist bumping them while you're singing or or or moving in and

letting them take a selfie with you or letting them sing a lyric

or or whatever. You clearly have this a massive,

massive, massive presence. Yet one of the first things that

you say to me the first time I see you play Bloodless live, you

know, you're First off beforehand, oh God, you're going

to see me play it for the first time.

You didn't like that. And then second, was it OK?

I I I'm astounded by that because you clearly know how to

rock the house and you've been doing it for a long time, and

yet you still don't know. Yeah, like, even when you're

saying it, getting a little emotional because I'm like

really like and I that that. And that's not a fake thing.

I know. It's not, that's what.

Because I don't. Yeah.

I always think if I could, you know, stick on this cauliflower

dye and lose some weight and get more confidence and throw my

fucking hair back, that proper man has a chance.

Because that that's how my head goes, right?

And I do. I think that at night, OK, we

got some good songs here, but I had to get rid of my pickle tits

here and I got to, I got to get better looking and learn how to

deal with the crowd because I don't feel I do it all.

But maybe that's what it is. Maybe that's a good.

That might be part of the charm, I guess.

Yeah you know in that in that even though I don't think you

say that to everybody what you said to me but but but you know

it's there somewhere and maybe that comes out as well I I I

don't know either Yeah it's a weird.

Thing I do also want to make my band proud.

You know what I mean? Like, so I I am up there and I

am doing it. I I love them so much and I I

want to make them proud of me because I am.

I'm not saying this to be the weird, vulnerable guy.

I'm the weak look for sure. The band is so freaking

talented. I am not the best singer in the

world, so I have to be. I have to give everything.

I have to be remotely close to these guys.

So I put everything I have into every show for them.

I have to These guys can come and just kind of go through the

motions and still blow everybody away.

I'm definitely. I'm proud of myself as a

songwriter and I'm I'm you know, and and everything and being

creative, But talent wise, I'm not really born to be a singer.

So maybe that comes across a bit and that gives a kind of energy

because the band's also so good. So their energy's feeding off

me. Whatever.

It's working. It's it's working.

Well I think about, you know it's it's it's so funny you talk

about being the best singer and and and that's so funny because

it's a relative term. Yeah.

I mean if you have if Bocelli's in the room here doing their

thing. OK that's fine.

But I would much rather an off tune.

Axel Rose. Yeah.

Yeah. Because you know what I mean?

Like, like, like, and and and the one thing about you, and I

don't know if this this translates or not, the thing I

love about you, the thing that I personally am inspired about

you, is that you go up and just be you, and you maybe turn up

the volume sometimes. Maybe you turn yourself up to 11

while you're while you're singing, but you're just going

up and being you. You're not trying to be somebody

else. Even when you're singing with an

English accent, that was you being you.

It is true. Yeah, even though you're not

trying to be someone else, you're just trying to be.

You sing with an English accent. And it's totally true.

I had tried to explain that to people, even like music industry

people that were listening to the songs and reaching out, and

they just didn't understand that.

But to me, it was. It was 100% real.

So I'm like, what do you mean you can't get it?

Like, like the English people sing with an American accent.

Oh, you can't tell they're English?

Yep. I couldn't understand it.

Yeah, it's just a different way of looking at it, but.

Yeah, what we're talking about here today, like, I mean, you

know, we, we think about guys that might be listening or

watching this, listening to or watching this.

And we think about living lives of authenticity.

Yeah. Being who they truly, truly are,

even if that person inside is something that they think the

world may not appreciate. May think is weird, may think

is. And and I mean I know you even

you even feel it now like like because of the success that

you've had in the valley, a lot of people here know who you are.

You know, again, I'm not trying to overstep anything by

revealing anything too private, but like people who make

assumptions and they are in that percentage of people who like to

throw stones or eggs, that gets to us too.

And and, and, but that being said, to the guys who aren't

living their lives right now, safe to say those stones, those

eggs that are worth it. Yeah.

Are they worth it? Are they worth living?

That life of authenticity that you seem to be 100%, that seems

to be who you are. Authentic is one of the words

that I would use to describe you near the very beginning of the

description. The description list authentic

would probably be one of the top words for you.

And again, not perfect. Yeah, first to admit, not

perfect, but authentic. You're in your zone when you're

being as authentic as you can be.

A lot of guys right now aren't being authentic.

They're not in the job they want.

They're not in the relationship they want.

They're not in the Whatever. That's a hard thing because I

learnt like and I get it, trust me, because the whole, like I

said when I was a kid, very insecure, shy, dark places and

everything. When I open myself up and just

stop, it's not that I stop caring.

It's not like I don't care what people think.

I'm not like I'm not. I'm not that I'm not small about

little muscles here because I totally care.

But I I've set myself up in my life to do it exactly how I want

to do it in that moment all the time, right?

And and I do it. It could be in a grocery store.

It could be like it could be anywhere.

I just, I just don't have to overthink or try to do an

expectation to anything. And I'm getting away with just

being exactly who I want all the time.

I don't know if that makes any sense.

But. Isn't that freeing?

It's very freeing and it's it's very beautiful and it's it's not

worth fighting that. It's not worth the effort going

in, hiding that it just like not in a negative way.

But life is short and I think when you find that place, the

whole world can start to look different.

I wake up my favorite things and I still get it like oh it's just

waking up in the morning and and looking outside.

It's my it's not looking at the winery.

It's just there's a just a feeling of like because it's

everything is just like so there's no, I don't know how to

explain it. There's no preconceptions.

There's no, I don't know I don't know how to explain that one

That sounds weird. Well, cut that out.

Well, no. No, we're not gonna.

Because when I married my wife, I think, I think you and I

actually view the world similarly in a lot of ways.

And and one of the things that when the things that she

couldn't, she had a hard time understanding.

When I wake up every morning, for the most part, I look

outside no matter what the weather is.

I say it's a brand new day. Yeah.

And I get excited about the brand new day and the

possibilities of that brand new day.

Yeah, It seems like it might be along the same vein of what you

were talking. About it is I think it's also a

sense of being super grateful and very just happy again and

it's not of where I am or what it's just being here.

Yeah. You know And then when you live

your day like that where just you're living every day, like

live the day to the fullest. Like every time I sing it's

definitely on my head. Sing like you're never going to

sing again. Like how lucky you get to sing

how lucky you that you get to wake up and go to a job and look

at your family. Those simple things are massive

and I think when you live your life with no, with lots of

vulnerability and just all out there, they're all magnified.

Maybe. I don't know if.

That's but yet once a week, say you're doing this once a week

and sometimes it's more than that but but once a week you're

doing that. You're also psyching yourself up

to do it and it's and and that's another.

I think that's another secret to life.

If if if you do something hard, if you do something that makes

you nervous to stretch your comfort zone to, that leads to

you know. Usually if the comfort zone is

here, usually the fun stuff or the good stuff is out here,

right? And you do that.

You know, you you constantly are challenging those things about

you and I think that that's AI think that's a that's a

beautiful thing. I think that's a secret too.

I think there are guys out there who may not be challenging

themselves. Maybe they're bored.

Maybe they're, you know, And if you do something, that's hard,

whether it's hard here or hard here or whatever that is.

Yeah, there is that. That's the reward.

That's the end game. And I never think, and I never

get tired of it either, though. Like, I never think it when I'm

coming over here. Oh, I'm going to get that.

But it happens every time. And yeah, you forget it even

happens. It just happens, right?

Yeah. I think that's I appreciate this

so much we're we're we're we're getting close to the end here

but I I got to ask you about I got well you know what I want to

talk about the writing process 1st and then I'll ask you about

Bloodless. But I'm going to ask you about

Bloodless because that is the I love that song and and I cannot

wait to to dive into that a little bit with you.

It's been fun diving with into it, with the perspectives of all

the other bandmates, but that one in particular.

When you have written songs along the way, have they always

been therapeutic, autobiographical, whatever words

like dealt personal, Have they always been that?

Or have there been times where you're like, no, I'm going to

write this, like I think about the Broken Hearts Club song,

which is, you know, I believe, written before this.

Did you write it after this place or was it written before

this place? Before I named it yeah, yeah.

Before I named this place, the song came before the Speakeasy.

Yeah, which is again, are you a prophet?

Like, I don't understand because it's it is the perfect song for

this venue and yet written beforehand.

But anyway, like when you write songs, is it sometimes with

intention of I'm going to write up a song about this or is it

always delving things? It's actually where this is not

going to make me look like a good songwriter.

I can't write that well on an actual topic most of the time,

OK? It's written off of feelings and

words that resonate with me and what that feeling is, OK and

where I'm proud of myself. I think if I focus too much on

the topic and that it would not have a spectrum of views from

different people. Yes, I think the the best songs

can mean different things to different people instead of

being one-dimensional. Yes, so.

And I but I'm not doing that on purpose.

It's not like I'm this cool know it all songwriter, because I'm

not. It's just the only way I know

how to write. So it's taking words and

feelings line by line. And then usually when I'm done,

it starts about it could be about a frog and end up about a

brick. And like, how do I now change

some things so that it's a frog and a lizard that's closer and

now people can take that to be what they want it to be?

And there's lines and there's feelings.

There's some specific songs that are really closer to home than

others. There's songs that I'm

pretending that I am nori when I'm writing them.

There's songs from pretending I'm Travis in a line.

There's songs from pretending I'm I'm they don't know that.

But I I try to do that because I don't think anybody really wants

to hear my full story. They want their own.

So if I'm taking it from different elements, it creates

something that people can make their own.

And I'm very at the end of the day, I am proud of the words.

That's the one thing that I am proud of.

And I no one really knows any of them.

I don't think the band knows all the words all the time, but I I

put a lot of thought into words and I I I I like what I've

written as far as words. I think I could sing better on

some days, but yeah, I don't know if I answered that.

Correctly. No, no, no.

And I'm not surprised that you. Would say it's all over the map.

I love that you at least have that.

Like if there was one thing that I wanted to do today, it's to

give you some compliments that you'd be able to accept and the

fact that you're able to even say I've got some satisfaction

in in the writing that I do. I love that.

I want to talk about bloodless. I want to talk about this this

this new stuff that you guys are doing.

Your catalogue's awesome. Everybody who watches this I or

listens. I highly recommend go to the the

Spotify or the Apple musics of the world or or whatever.

Search for proper, man. It's worth the search.

It's awesome of every era that has come out.

Every song, every single, all these things that have come out

are worth worth putting in your ear holes for sure.

And and and down not just through the ear holes, but into

the heart as well. There's a lot of beautiful,

beautiful stuff that's eclectic and all over the place.

I love your band, but I want to talk about Bloodless and and as

this project has bloomed organically, it bloomed right

along side of the production of Bloodless which is a song that

started really seven years ago. Yeah, Travis, yeah.

You know, and and and I just. I love that.

I love the song. I love that.

It's very, very clear that there are some primal feelings that

are involved in this song. Can you please talk about it

from your perspective? Get as personal or as surfacely

as you want, but just. We'll go in the middle.

OK. So yeah, the song started from

Travis musically, as far as the words go, there is a feeling.

The last two songs are the one called The Fort, where they're

both kind of rate written lyrically at the same time.

There was something in in my life, my family's life that was

pretty sad. We lost somebody very close to

us. Those details are more left, you

know. So it was a very heavy situation

for the whole family as it was pretty traumatic and the person

that we lost, proper man, was his favorite band.

So it's a pretty deep, deep conversation.

So and I've written probably 30 songs that are directed exactly

on that topic. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Don't do that. I did.

But those are for me. Those are mine, they're not.

I don't want to share them with people.

More like journal entries or something, or a diary entry.

It's my it's my therapist, right?

Writing songs and maybe one day I'll show some people but those

are are put aside. But as I was doing those songs

and doing doing that these two songs were being written they're

both have got elements of that that in them in in these songs

bloodless though part of it. The words do come from a place

of, remember I said earlier, about 50 people going, yeah,

yeah. And that one person that doesn't

like it beating you down. The song is about it's, it's,

it's hopefully a bit of a message to people out there just

to not give up on on and believe in what they're doing and to

focus on what they're doing. So my whole point, that song is

just not listening and going after the things with all of my

heart, not letting anyone get in the way of that.

But there's obviously on the level of the primal, the the

emotion and the energy, I'm singing to that, but the words

are a bigger or different message.

So it's hard to explain. It's very Is that ADHD?

When? You.

I would call it layered. Layered.

OK, So it's. Yeah, it's very layered.

The energy and the heart and the thing that people say they get

goosebumps off of. It's not the words, it's where

I'm singing from. Yes.

But the words, not all of them. Some of them has to do with

that. But most of the words are about

the journey and the negativity, and when people are trying to

bring you down, when you're trying to do something, it's a

bit of a message to that. Look the other way.

Yeah I so. So being here I'm I'm honoured

by the way that I got to see you perform that song live for the

first time. Honoured.

I'm. Glad you were there.

I'm glad you were there because you saw it.

It'll only get better. Here we go.

No, it's true. It was our first kick at the

can, but I know that that song meant something to you.

Very. Very much so.

When I was up there and I sang it with my back to the crowd, it

wasn't being rude. I just, I was really nervous and

and and I will always sing with that song to my back to the

crowd because a few people said it was powerful.

You will. Oh well.

And and and it's not a thing of me being I'm singing that song

for me of where it comes from and that's that's we really

someone's business. So I'll always have my back to

them. But I'm looking the other way,

Yeah. But I hope the words are

someone's business. I hope it does someone counts to

that song and get the message. Out of it.

Oh my God, is it it? Does it ever do that for me?

I I see that, you know and I understand why.

Why, There'll be a probably a time where that is the show

opener for a while and and and all of that until you figure it

out. To me, when I think about you

guys seeing you on stages, whether it's this one or bigger

ones or whatever that looks like to me in my heart, That's the

song you finish with really well.

Yeah, because it sends, it sends you out into the night wanting

to say, screw you to anything, anything, any forces that of of

whatever it might be, whether it's a, whether it's words,

whether it's oppression, whatever it is, and and and

doing the other thing instead and and and and walking in the

other direction from it. And to me that I mean what

better of a of a message could you give to somebody.

Yeah and that's what that but that's what it means to me and

and I mean I I can't wait to see the evolution as it continues.

Yeah. With that song and how it.

You know what happens with it. Yeah.

Just OK before we kind of close it up, I've got an idea about

how to close things up. But but this project talking,

you know what he changed. It's all about.

It's about being a place for guys can help being them, can

can can be themselves and negotiate their way through this

world. Here you were an Insta.

Yes. The moment you know you were

approached with this, the idea of this as being able to profile

with the greater message being men's mental Wellness.

Did you want to comment on anything about that before we

finish up with the thing that I was thinking?

Of here I don't know what to say to it too much.

I I really don't. But what I do know the basics of

it when I talk to you and your sincerity to do some good things

for people and and I've struggled.

I have my own struggles every day with mental health.

I've had them since I was a little boy and I just build

stupid shit to fix it. It doesn't mean I don't have it.

And so when I heard you talk, I appreciate it.

And anything I could do to even just just hang out with you and

and maybe give anything I can to to show you appreciation for

what you're doing, it's it's commendable.

It's very cool. Well, I appreciate you saying

that. Thank you very, very much.

You know, it's funny how people could be labeled and we, we, we

label people. Once you get to a certain place,

though, and you've built things that are big enough, you might

get labeled as eccentric. But really at the end of the

day, I think, I think all of us have that desire to be eccentric

because we are such individuals. Yeah.

Taught to conform. Yeah.

And and and and the one thing this is how I kind of want to

finish off a little bit is, is the thing about proper man.

To me it is a statement. Even though you were come up

wearing the, the, the, the formal wear of a certain time

period and all of that stuff. To me Proper man is about not

conforming and being yourself. Yeah.

And and and the things that are important to you are the

priorities. You know, the things that are

really important to your heart of the priorities, not the

things that everybody else says. That should be your priorities

and that sort of. Thing.

And when you do that, good things can happen.

Yeah. That's when you start to get

results and move people and do good things.

Yes. It's when you're oblivious to

the rest of it and you do that and that's that is exactly what

happened. And it didn't.

It was, it happened organically. You said that word earlier.

It really did. Yeah.

I I'm glad you're in the world. I'm glad you're in the world

that is close geographically to my world because you have

inspired me in so many ways. You have a group of guys who are

all inspired by you. We have the video footage that

they have said that they are all inspired by you.

It's just because. I give them whiskey.

Not through. Not through the inspiration of

spirit, but through the inspiration of who you are and

what you do. And again, you know when you

include you, you know 3/5 of the band have lived in your house at

some point. Like it's just it's a beautiful

thing. This is a beautiful band.

I can't wait to see what the future lays in store for, how I

can connect with you guys, whether it's just as a fan or

other things, this kind of thing, what what's going to

happen with the future for you is is just magical to me.

And I love the fact that I got a chance to talk to you at this

time and this place. He changed it.

Thanks you on behalf of. He changed it.

Thank you very, very much for understanding the vision of kind

of what we had here. Thank you for being.

I want to use this word very carefully because some people

look at it as a religious word I talked about earlier.

But it is a testimony. You all are a testimony for

other guys who are out there that may not be living the lives

that they want to live, but but it's worth it.

It's worth doing the work. And we've had many examples of

that through this project of of Yeah, it's worth it.

Yeah. I wish I could speak better to

that feeling. But what you're saying there,

it's I wish I could. Wish I was better spoken, but

yeah, I don't know how to how to say it because that is

everything that I that I am today, which is not it's just

whatever, but life is going good.

It's only because of that reason, and I can't speak to it

as well as you can, and I can feel it very strongly.

But anybody out there that you know those those kinds of things

are holding them back where they have insecurities of who they

are because for whatever reason, if it's something they're taught

or what they think it should be, it's just everything just opens

up when you just let it all go. It's very cliche just but kind

of not give a shit and just be good.

Just just try to be good and do good things for people and not

worry about, you know, anything coming back your way or

anything. Just kind of going for it.

I'm not making any sense. You're making all the sense.

Thank you for living it. Thank you for doing that.

And thank you for giving people. Thank you for giving people

permission to look the other way on these things.

So thank you for that. Jay.

I love you. I appreciate you so much.

Thanks, man. OK.

Right on.