Mark Steven Porro on Caregiving, Aging, and Finding Joy in Hard Seasons

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Welcome to he cast, the official podcast of he changed it.

As always, I am Mike Chisholm as always, I'm excited to have

conversations around the world of men's mental Wellness and all

of the things that encompass every guy's got a story and

those stories, they leave clues and and and and sometimes

they're hard clues, but clues nonetheless.

And that's why he cast exists. That's why he changed it exists.

Today's guest is a guy by the name of Mark Steven Poro.

Now Mark is he was an actor and he still, I mean, he he still is

an actor. He's just not a practicing

actor. Been in Holly was in Hollywood

for a long time, writer, screenwriter as well.

And he went through you know, it's, it's cool.

We we did talk a little bit about the fact that he got to go

chase his dreams and things like that.

That was great. But there was a, there was a, an

epic event that happened in his life where he had to go and, and

become a caregiver for his mother for the last few years of

her life. And his life became a full stop

from what he was doing and moving into a new phase and a

beautiful phase. And, and not only did he do that

for his mom, and I think a lot of us know people who end up

becoming caregivers. It could be for kids, it could

be for spouses, it could be for parents, as it was in this case

here. He also wrote a book about it.

And, and I'm just so grateful that this book is out in the

world. It's called A Cup of Tea on the

Commode. And it's the story of when he

became a caregiver for his mom and helping usher her into that

final phase of, of life. And boy, is it nice to hear him

talk about this and, and, and the benefits that came from it.

And, and you know, we all have a gear inside of us that we don't

necessarily know that we have. But for the guys that are out

there that are listening to this or watching this right now and,

and, and you might have a caregiver role that's being

thrust upon you at some point or, or you have been.

This is a really cool episode. Mark is, is, is so articulate

and the way that he's able to talk about not just, you know,

the book itself, but this story, what he went through, it's very

inspiring. I just appreciate him so much.

I hope you enjoy my conversation with Mark Steven Poro.

OK, Mark, before we get into anything here, I want to ask the

question, you know, on all of your, your, for lack of a better

term, branding, the way that you get your name out there, it's

Mark Steven Poro. Is that because of like a, a, a

a writers Guild or a, or an Actors Guild kind of thing?

Is that why you have the three names, or is it something that

you've just kind of always done? Well, when I was in Hollywood, I

it was Mark S Poro. I thought that had a nice ring

to it until I met until I met a potential manager said get rid

of the S mark Poro. It's strong.

And we we we had a big battle over this S Anyway, when when

when I was decided to write the book, I I thought it just

sounded. More literary oh, I got you OK

yeah. And it does it it does it has a

great ring to it and I, I just thought OK, that's that's it's

cool to do that and I, I appreciate that I appreciate a

little bit of it's not even theatric it's just care of how

things sound and whatnot and I just I had it does have a really

nice ring to it and I was wondering about that if you did

use that back in the day. We're going to get to your your

career in entertainment and all the the the the adventures that

you've had. But really, at the end of the

day, I cannot tell you how touched I was by your story.

And, and, and there's a lot of guys out there who, who, who

listen to this or people who know people who have become

caregivers. It could be to a child, it could

be to a spouse. And of course, as Gen.

X rises up in the age, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm one of the

younger Gen. Xers and, and, and I'm 50.

So as we raise up those baby boomer parents of ours, you

know, we become caregivers to our parents as well.

And and not only did you do that because a lot of people do that

and they do it silently, but these things leave clues and the

clues that you were able to pick up along the way you were.

They ain't able to take that, that, that that beautiful

alchemy of gifts that you have being, you know, an entertainer,

an actor, a writer, humorist, all of these things.

And you were able to look at some of these, put them together

and come up with a book that specifically every caregiver out

there should read. I, I, I don't like to shit on

anybody, but boy, oh boy, did you ever create a textbook and a

manual for people who became caregiver, who, who unwittingly

sometimes become caregivers? What a thing you've left in the

world. We're about a year after.

It's been really how? How Long's the book been out

now? Actually, we're approaching 3

years. It was 03 years.

I'm sorry. It was released on Mother's Day

2023, so OK. So we've got some reflection

yesterday. Well, ABS, I was gonna ask

because now we've got some distance between I thought it

was just over a year. It's it's three years.

OK, Now that we've got some distance between the release of

the book and where we are now, I'm curious, how has your

perspective changed? We're going to get into the book

and what it's all about and everything, but I'm super

curious on this end of it. How has your perspective changed

since the book has been released?

Well, what I'll, I'll give you one of the the first I, I, I

think revelations that I came up with.

So when the book came out, I couldn't do the audio book.

I wanted to record the audio book here.

I live in the South of France now, but I wanted to record the

audio book. But anything to do with my

family, I get really emotional. I'm really, I guess a crybaby.

I have no problem with that. And so I needed some not only, I

guess physical distance, but I needed some emotional distance

from it because even when I tried to read non emotional

chapters, I would just wait, this is about baseball.

Why am I crying? So I, I, I said, I, Oh my, you

know, my 28 years of studying, acting have to kick in here.

And so, but during that time, so it was about 6 months before I

recorded the audio book and I had time to look at the book it

with fresh eyes and it, it was interesting.

So the story sounds like, and it's kind of true that I went

back to rescue my mother and, and that's how I think most

people will look at it. And then a part of reflection.

I, I think that my mother actually rescued me and that

that popped in because again, she's still, I think even with

all the years that now she's been gone, she's still mom and

still teaching. And I think through my story,

I'm, I'm hoping that her teaching keeps expanding, which

it has. And so we were brought up in a

really nurturing home. Both of my parents were very

funny people, but they taught us how to care for others and care

for certainly the family members and stuff too.

So for me, this is not a big deal.

It seemed like the right thing to do.

My mom deserved better at this time, but we'll get into how

that all began. And so I felt that I was the one

who could give those make her life better and, and give her

last year's some happiness and some joy and stuff that was

missing a little bit before. And, and luckily I was smart

enough when this opportunity came.

And I think again, it was my mom's teaching.

I was smart enough to take it on.

And it made me certainly a better man and it made me more

empathetic for, you know, it's not, and not not just older

people, but people in general, but also animals.

My mother was a big animal person, and I grew up with every

kind of furry animal you could. But I also had asthma, and I

guess I took enough drugs so I could handle that.

But once I went away to college, all that kind of disappeared.

And I was allergic to my home from that point forward, because

at that point we didn't have any more cats, but we still had a

couple dogs. And I had to live in the

basement with the window open in the winter when I was there on

college breaks. And so I was not a dog person.

Now I'm a huge dog person because my girlfriend had a dog

and luckily I wasn't allergic to her dog at the time.

And it certainly helped the relationship.

And since then we've had rescued 2 more dogs and and they're

great. So, and my mom was a big animal

lover. And so I think again, that's

that's mom continually teaching. You know, he changed, he, he, he

changed it. It's all about these things that

we get these lessons that we get taught, these things that we

learn along the path. And, and, and I'm, I'm, I'm

fascinated. We're going to go into the book

here. But, but really at the end of

the day, there's different seasons for, for, for different

parts of our lives. And there's a lot of guys out

there, middle-aged people who have never gone out and chased

their dreams. They don't even know what their

dreams are, you know, and they're just, they're just

connected the dots. We talk about this all the time

on the show and but you weren't that guy.

You were the guy that was afforded the ability earlier on

in life to go and chase your dreams.

Was that something that your parents always supported?

I would have to say yes verbally.

They, they, they may have said, you know, once I, I went to

college, I got a, a, a, a Bachelor of Science in

industrial design, had a very successful design career going

and I gave it up to go to Hollywood to try that very

secure career in acting. And neither one of my parents

ever said anything like, what are you doing?

Like my dad's thing would have been your, your dumb bag rat.

What are you doing? And, and never.

And when they would come up and visit me in Lai think my mom got

a kick out of it because I have a chapter in a book called the

Champion of Arts. And she always wanted to get us

into, I think, into some creative career.

All of us were in the ballet at some point except for I think

one older brother. And I kind of fell into that.

My mom was a big fan of the ballet.

And we we lived about 20 minutes from Manhattan.

So she would take us say, we'd go to Radio City Music Hall, we

would go to Broadway plays and, and we would see the ballet and

things like that. And then my older brother and

older sister were like little stars in Northern Jersey.

We all studied with Irene Fokin was a very reputable Russian

ballet teacher, very strict. And so they were starring

actually with the Royal Danish Ballet in Lincoln Center when I

was about 7. And I went to visit, you know,

see the show and and I went backstage to visit before they

went on. And it was one of those

Hollywood stories. Some guy comes crashing through

the door and says, Hey, we need another little kid.

And he locks eyes with me. And he says, you kid want to be

in the show. And I'm like, what?

And then he says, and we'll pay you.

And I went, oh, now we're talking.

So my first job, I'm a professional dancer now.

I got thrown right into a wardrobe.

I got a great costume. I look like a little Errol Flynn

with the with the sachet and, and it was fabulous.

I got a better costume than my brother and he was not happy

about it. But we got paid $5 a show and

we're in Lincoln Center. So that was my debut at 7.

And I said, this is cool. And then I started taking dance

lessons and then we performed in the The Nutcracker.

Irene Fokin had a very popular production of that in Northern

Jersey where she got a lot of the leads from New York City.

So we top notch dancers and I was a kid and I was, you know,

played a bunch of roles. And so and then we travelled

around New Jersey doing recitals and things like that.

But I retired I think around 10 or 11 from that.

I did, did not get along with Irene Fokin.

She was a tough Russian and I was a very independent, stubborn

kid. And so I, I retired at, let's

say 11 from the ballet and that was it for the creative stuff

until I got into working after design.

I always did some funny stuff because my family, we had funny

things. So I, I wrote funny songs and we

did some fun performances of goofy stuff.

But when I was working at a design firm, one of our

receptionists was a model. And she said, hey, you should

start doing this. And so I looked into it and I

started doing the print and then some commercials because they

the commercials I was getting because they said you can act.

And I said, oh, that's interesting.

And yeah, it's. A gateway, yeah.

Yeah, and then in 84 I decided to bite the bullet and drove

across country and yeah, I moved to Hollywood.

So yeah, I've. I've, I've pretty much, I think

chased every dream. So that was, that was a big one

and it was, it was great because I wanted to be a good actor.

So I had a connection with an agent from my work in Ohio and,

and so she said start, you know, acting classes right away.

So I I was in acting classes when I first got there and, and

pretty much until I left in 2012.

And it was great. And so I said I want to be a

good actor. And my goal at that point was to

get on like Hill Street Blues. That was one of the top shows

you wanted to see. Yeah.

Yeah. And in less than two years, I

got on Hill Street Blues. Wow.

That was the start. And so I said that that's just

Steven. Bochco like the top of the top

of the top like that, you know, at the time, for those who don't

know, Hill Street Blues, like like that was probably the the

number one from a popularity standpoint.

Drama on TV at that. Time and and that read that

redefined definitely police shows and stuff and and and

television overall so but this is how Hollywood works so I get

Hill St. Blue I didn't work again for

seven months yeah. That's so that's, that's exactly

the feast and famine of the whole thing, right.

But you're chasing the dream and, and, and, and looking back

on that like I'm, I'm, I'm feeling your energy even as

you're talking about it. There's a lot of guys out there

who haven't even dipped their toe in their dream.

And I and you know, looking back, it feels like, you know,

you drove it's, it's that classic story.

You drove across the country to go and see if you can make it

there and see if if if you could make any headway there

whatsoever. You were there all the way till

2012. What a ride.

And I mean, I don't sense regret there at all for going out and

at least trying to see what you could do because it feels like

you went pretty far down the road compared to, you know, what

could have happened. Yeah, no, it it all of it was

good. In fact, you get a little

spoiled so that first I'm on Hill Street Blues and when you,

what's lovely when you're a, a union actor, if it goes into

overtime, the money just it, it, it multiplies.

So we were into like double golden time and I'm playing the

assistant DA. So I'm in the courtroom and it

was maybe 11 hours and, and I, I noticed in the, the gallery,

there was a, a man must have been in his 80s and he's there

that whole time as an extra and he's having the best time in the

world. And I'm like, Oh my gosh.

So I sat with him during one of our breaks and, and I'm kind of

hinting like, don't you have something better to do with the

years you have left? And, and he says, no, I just

love being around you young creative people.

It just, it gives me energy. It feeds me.

And, and he says, and my daughter owns the studio, so I

like hanging out here. And I said, who's your daughter?

He says Mary Tyler Moore. So it was MTM studios at the

time and they at Saint Elsewhere was there, Hill Street Blues

Later on Seinfeld was filmed there, which I was on actually

with my dad. And it was it was just a a great

start. But to see this man it just

having so much fun hanging out at his daughter's studio.

It it was lovely. So that was that was like, this

is very, very cool. So that was yeah.

And I had a lot of moments like that, I think because of, you

know, you go in with a good attitude.

There's a lot of rejection, of course, but you got to say, I'm

going to roll with it. Or you, you, you, I, I guess you

depend on your thick skin and stuff like that.

And I grew up with two very, let's say, torturing brothers.

So I learned about a thick skin very early on in life.

So it was like, that's all you got.

Nothing. Nothing compared to my brothers.

So this is a great contrast because I want it now move

forward a lot of time to the place where you had to make the

decision with mom and you knew you saw that, you know, there

was a time that was that was necessary that you were going to

have to come in and be the guy as she, you know, descended into

her golden years. And through that the challenges

that can come with that. I want to talk about that part

of the story now. How old were you and what was

the realization moment when that happened that it was you were

going to be the guy? Well, I was 55 and at the time

my acting career was kind of petering out because I didn't

have a major name or a great agent or anything like that.

It still had work once in a while, but I was running a snack

food business that my brother and I started to honor my father

and he invented this half pop popcorn snack he called

Nutronuts. We eventually changed it to

Grandpa Poe's originals and we built it into a national brand

and it was great 'cause it was a just a family secret.

My father didn't have any luck getting it to the market and I

told him that I'm going to get it to the market and

unfortunately we got on the store shelves a year after he

passed, but I'm sure he's enjoying it.

Anyway, that was he. Was going to say he knew like

energetically, energetically. It's that it's that beautiful,

beautiful triumph that keeps him alive.

And, and, and and and whether or not, you know, we don't know

what happens on the other side. But but the idea of the tribute

that's still happening after he's gone, that right there is a

beautiful, beautiful sentiment. And then if there's anything

else, that's cake. So what a beautiful story that

is. And that's gonna be the next

book, right? How you honor Dad?

Well, there, there is a a chapter in there.

Yep, Yep, that is the book that I'm almost done with now, which

is focusing more on dad. But there is a chapter about

this in, in this book also and the cup of tea and the commode.

And so that was pretty much 24/7.

And also that prepared me for mom because I did, I was

multitasking every day. I did everything for that

company from the website and the social media and all the

marketing to the, the demos to cooking everything.

I designed the equipment. So it, it, it set me up very

well for mom. And so I'm doing that and still

never married, had no children. So I say I was having the

carefree bachelor life. And I get a call from my

brother. My mother was still living in

the house that we grew up in in Ridgewood, NJ.

And he said mom's on her deathbed, the doctor cut off all

meds and food and called Hospice and so come home.

So she had six children. So we all came back thinking,

you know, we're going back to say goodbye.

And I think it was it was about 9 days after her 89th birthday

and she was still physically fine.

We had a family living in upstairs in our house that we're

overseeing household duties, doing the cooking in the

shopping and stuff because she could no longer no longer drive,

but also to keep her company. Yeah, We found out that they did

not get along very well, so they left my mother alone a lot.

So my mother did suffer from some depression throughout her

life, but she hid it very well from us.

But as the years go on, the filter seemed to fade.

And so she became sometimes grumpy and depressed.

And I think at this point she was not happy.

And I think she just said, if this is going to be the end of

my life, I'm going to end it now because this is not cool.

And so she was non responsive. I called it a semi comatose

state and a Hospice was there when I arrived and didn't open

her eyes. Maybe once in a while opened her

eyes but didn't talk. She responded a little bit to

touch but she looked like she was ready to go.

And we had the priest come in deliver the last rites.

And so my younger sister and I hung out with Hospice because we

wanted to care for our mother as much as possible for as long as

she wanted to be here. We didn't know if she's gonna be

hours, days or what. So Hospice was great.

They were very generous. They taught us the little tips

and tricks. We had to deal with bed sores at

the time, how to change the diaper and sponge bathe her

correctly, and how to change the bedding with the helpless

patient in bed. Little tricky, but it was good

to to know how to do that without.

I'm gonna stop you there because right now there are people

listening to this and they're like, whoa, they're getting

squeamish. They're getting to this place.

And, and, and I mean, having a little bit of experience with

this, you know, just talk about the idea of, you know, 'cause

you're on the other side of it right now and it's old hat and

you're able to talk about it. There's a gear inside of us that

does kind of open up and give us the ability.

There's a lot of people thinking about this going.

I could never do that. And I just would like you to

talk to that point just for a moment, because at some point

there's a good chance many, if not most of us are going to have

to do that in some way, shape or form.

And I want you to talk about how it became old hat from when it

was something that that that perhaps was not so much.

Right, well, for a son, I think especially it was a little

awkward in the beginning because you're seeing your mother naked

for the first time. At least I was.

And she's at that .89. You see what the years have done

to her and they're not kind nor is gravity.

And but I think that's where my my acting training came in

because I always said I'm taking on this role, a caregiver.

So I've got to become the caregiver and, and not, I'm

still the son, but I'm burying that part and I'm becoming,

whether it's method acting or not, I'm the caregiver because I

didn't want, my mother was not really awake at that point, but

I didn't want her to feel uncomfortable.

I didn't want her feel like she was a burden or that she was

putting us in an awkward position in any way.

So if there was any, if I was uncomfortable at any time, I had

to bury it. And I, I think that's where the

acting came in or leave the room.

And one of one of the pieces advice I would give people is if

they are uncomfortable with any of this, you don't, again, you

don't want to put that on your loved one.

Don't do it. You don't, you don't need to do

it. You can find a pro to do it or

someone who is comfortable with the, the changing the bedding,

wiping the, the, the butt on the commode and changing all that

stuff. If you are there and you're

present and you show them that you care and you want them to

stick around, that's enough. I mean, some of the best moments

I had with my mother was sitting at the kitchen table just

holding hands and not a word was spoken.

But boy, there was such a lovely connection going between our

hands. And those were the lovely

moments. I mean, you got to get through

the, the normal daily chores and I tried to make them as fun as

possible and certainly pleasant. And I took a lot of tender

loving care in it and stuff. But there's, there's some

moments where it's like, oh, and I and I in, in the book, I, I

lay it all out. People say, boy, it's raw and

honest and it, it, it. If you're a bit squeamish, you

may have a little issue with some of the chapters, but I

wanted to write an honest book about what you're confronted and

and so. Yeah, but people who are in the

situation, that's what they want to hear.

They, they, they, they don't, they don't want to hear people

beating around the Bush when it comes to that, right?

No pun. I don't know if there's a pun

there or not, but they don't want to hear that.

They don't want to hear that at all.

Because at the end of the day, when you're in that situation or

entering that situation, you need to know the info and, and,

and the idea, like, I mean, you're showing right here.

You know, you have that and, and, and you're a great, you're

a humorous writer, but you're showing it here.

You got personality and you're throwing it out there with a

little bit of panache, right? So, but at the same time, you

are also not sugarcoating what some of the hard stuff is.

And that's what that's what we need to hear.

We need to hear that. And here you are on the other

side of it. You're able to talk about it.

It wasn't, you know, you're able to get through it.

A lot of people, the fear is worse than the reality, I guess

is what I'm trying to say. And that is very, very clear in

your message. Yeah, it also what helps is I

have this motto and and I tell people some, some people have

say it's corny, but my motto it's, it's, it's, it's helped me

throughout life, especially with all of my adventures I've been

into. And it's find the joy and I

focus on the positive aspect of any of this stuff.

And, and so this was I'm going in and when I, I actually asked

my mother for permission at one point because I didn't move back

right away. I stayed with her several weeks

and then I went back to LA to take care of some business.

And then I came back a few months later and took care of

her for two more weeks. And that's the time where I

said, you know, I really think I got to step in and do this.

And I asked her for permission and I said, there's two things.

First, we're going to have fun because that that's the way I

roll. I wanted to make it as fun as

possible and make her laugh at least once a day.

And and she said, great. And I said, so if I do this, I

will now be in charge. And she was like, and I said,

that means you must now obey me. So the full role reversal.

And I'm the leader, I'm the leader.

Her smile completely disappeared, but she did puck

her up for a kiss. And I wasn't sure if that was a

sign of surrender or one wishing me luck because she she could

be, she could be a tough cookie. So I just gave her a kiss and

hope for the best. And it was, it was fun.

But again, yeah, if you go when I think with that mindset of how

can I also I put the focus on her.

So how can I make her each day more special?

How can I make her laugh? How can I cook a, a meal that

she hasn't had for a while or make her smile or, or do

something? And so I kept coming up with

those kind of things and not dwelling on, boy, this is

emotionally taxing and this is physically exhausting and all

that business. And it really helped.

And also, I grew up with two nutty parents and sense of humor

was a a big deal with my siblings and and my folks,

especially in difficult situations.

And so whether it's maybe dark sense of humor or not, but we

had moments where mom certainly made me laugh quite a bit too.

And so that helps. I I love hearing that.

I want to, I want to connect the dot real quick here.

Was it the community? Was it the fact that her family

was back around her that allowed her to kind of rise back up

again and then come back from the from the brink of where she

was at? Was it?

Was it basically you guys that caused that?

I, I believe, yes, I have a chapter in the book called The

Silent Scream, and I think it was a cry for help.

She wanted love back in her life and certainly back in her house.

And I think with all of her kids there and being around and

certainly a few of us caring for her, actually physically caring

for her, she sensed that was back.

And I think she said, OK, we'll give it another try.

And that's fantastic. Yeah.

So it was, yeah, it was about 3 weeks and it's interesting.

So Hospice, we found out that Hospice, you know, they had this

directive. Yep.

And but each of the Hospice nurses came in 'cause we had a

caravan of these nurses and they were great, but some of them

prescribed their own medicine and so we had to make sure they

read the directive. No food, no medicine, no, no

even drinking. We would just moisten her lips

occasionally. And she had no desire.

She she showed no indication of wanting anything other than just

the sleep. And this one nurse came in and

she read the directive and she goes, OK.

And she went right into my mother's room and leaned over

and said, Missus Poro, are you hungry?

And my mother, this is 3 weeks in.

My mother's eyes snapped open like a dinner bell went off.

And I'm like what the what is that?

And then the lady looks at us and accuses us of trying to

starve her mother to death. So so my sister and I were there

at the time. We almost jumped over the bed to

strangle her and said no we're not, please go and call your

supervisor. So the supervisor sent her away

because she broke the rules. But now I'm thinking maybe the

maybe the original assessment was wrong and we are in fact.

So I went into feeling really guilty and said, mom, are you

hungry? And she says, what do you got?

And those are her first words in weeks.

And I'm like, anything you want. And it's now it's March.

And she says, how about some pumpkin pie?

Well, it's not, it's not pumpkin pie season.

So I, I, I, I left the room. My brother who lived locally was

in the living room and I said please see if you can find a

miracle and find some pumpkin pies.

He came back in less than a probably a less than an hour 2

fresh pumpkin pies. I don't know where he found

them, I don't know if he baked them himself.

But the pumpkin pies woke her up again.

The 1st food in weeks. She spit out the first spoonful

but the second spoonful went down.

She ended up eating half the the first pie that day, finished it,

finished it the next day and then I think ate the full pie

the next day. But her color was back.

She was awake and alert and she knew what was going on and it

was fabulous. So that one nurse, I call her

the rebel nurse actually was it I think a guardian Angel.

So it was, it was pretty amazing.

And so she ate and and she may have been on their most

continuous sugar high because for weeks it was it was the

pumpkin pies. Then it went to sugary oatmeal

and she had about 8 bowls of oatmeal.

Wow. A day before that it was bowls

of sherbet. And it was like New Jersey was

running out of sherbet. And.

Again, super, super high sugar content and, and then the

oatmeal was a lot of sugar in it as well.

But we said, hey, listen, she's doing great.

You got anything you want at this point?

You know, she's 89 going into her 90th year.

And yeah, eat, eat it. And it was great.

And then we started sneaking in some real food and, and then it

worked out pretty well after that.

The sustenance that is a that is a phenomenal, phenomenal part of

the story And and it just shows again, what will I mean and, and

and and desire and drive can do when you have some sort of a

purpose, whatever that purpose is for her eating the pumpkin

pie and then and then coming back to it again, shout out to

that nurse. I mean, you talk about, you

know, somebody who's really in the healthcare profession, that

was someone who cared and, and, and what a what a what a, what a

part of the story that was. So OK, you, you, you, this goes

on. She starts to get her life back

in her and you realize, OK, well, you're going to be the

guy. You make the decision, you tell

her, and she goes with it in her whatever way that she does.

Was there any times as this began?

Now, obviously there's a learning curve.

Your purpose is learning what the new normal is going to be,

all that sort of stuff. But then at a certain point, I

imagine it becomes a routine and the newness and the things, the

challenge kind of go away a little bit.

Were there times where you were feeling I, I don't want to say

resentful, but yeah, like, I mean resentful or, or, or bored

or anything. Like, were there times during

those times where you know the magic of being there for your

mom and these moments that you talk about the beautiful things,

There had to have been some lows as well.

Oh, sure, Yeah, yeah. I don't know if there was any

boredom because it's, again, it's a, it's a 24/7 job, right?

And even when you're, there were a number of times where I'm up

laying in bed and, and she's sleeping and safely in her

hospital bed, so she can't get out of bed or anything like

that, but you're still worried if she's going to be breathing

when you get up in the morning. And there were a number of times

where she almost gave me heart attacks where she'd be calling

out my name very early in the morning and I'd go flying down

the stairs, not knowing if it's an emergency or not and sliding

into her room And she'd say, oh, you are here.

I'm like, of course I'm here. Where else am I going to be?

It's 6:00 in the morning. And she's like, oh, just

checking. And I said, can you check a

couple hours later next time? I just got to bed.

But you know, the you get again, it was I was glad she was awake.

And so that was lovely. While she was there again or

while I was there, she slept a lot because she was like a baby.

And so I had some skills in doing this.

So I ended up renovating her entire house while I was there.

Oh, there you go. And that was lovely because I

kept her engaged to show her, you know what we're doing.

And but it was pretty funny. She did suffer from a little bit

of dementia. So after we would go through,

let's say our morning routine and I would get her into the

kitchen for breakfast. Always cooked a nice healthy

breakfast. And I put her in the living room

where she watched the Animal Planet all day or Jeopardy and

Wheel of Fortune and that kind of stuff at night seems to be

mandatory for a certain age. And, and I would be off to Home

Depot in between and getting on the material.

So Home Depot I'm coming in with two by fours and buckets and all

this stuff. And, and for about 5 days in a

row, she's watching me in the living room pass her by and

she's going, what is going on? And I said, I'm making your

house more beautiful. She goes, well, who's paying for

all that? I said you are so cheer and that

went almost every day. I said I'm renovating your

house. I'm making it more beautiful.

Who's pay you are cherub. You may have to go back to work.

So it was a lot of fun. But during that there was I,

the, the last thing that I did was her, her bathroom upstairs

and I put in a big bathtub and, and I, I thought what you want.

So, you know, we take a lot of these things for granted.

I don't know. The last time she had a bath,

she had sponge baths twice a day.

I did sponge baths morning and evening, but last time a real

bubble bath. So I said, hey, you want to

christen the new bathroom with the bubble bath?

And she said absolutely. So I carried her upstairs, put

her in the bubble bath, place the bubbles and ice covering

everything and shot a picture. And she's just beaming from ear

to ear. It's fantastic.

And then she passes out and I'm like, and I'm so God, papping

her cheek and going oh God. I try to do a good thing and I

kill my mom, but at least she smelled good.

So I pull her out of the bathtub because I again, she had a

wicked sense of humor, so I thought she was joking and she

wasn't. She was out and so I carried her

downstairs and put her to bed and called the nurse and the

nurse said she fainted because her blood pressure went too low

in the hot water. You left her in too long.

So that was her last bubble bath.

But she woke up about 30 minutes later, had no recollection of

passing out. But she loved the new bathroom,

so it worked out good for me. That would have been a tough one

to explain to my siblings. Oh, by the way, yeah.

So we had, we had. I think that was the only near

death moment. There was another time when we

when I finished the basement, I had, I did all the work, but I

had someone to come in with the carpet, the carpeting.

So I had two carpet samples and they're three by three inch

squares. And I served her breakfast in

bed this particular day. And then I put the two carpet

samples on her breakfast tray and went in to replenish her,

her sippy cup with juice. And I came back and she has a

carpet sample in her mouth and a scowl on her face.

And I said, what's going on? She goes, this is not a cookie.

I said no, it's a carpet sample, which one tastes better?

And, and she chose well. So we had, we had some, I mean,

we tried to make again, you make light of it as best you can

because it's a, it's a stress relief, I think for both of us

and. Yeah, but you you think about if

you didn't make that decision and, and, and and go on this,

you know, trek of life, you know, these little moments are

the things that pass us by every day really quickly.

I know you're in the South of France now and I know the pace

is very different than it is here in North America.

But but but yeah, I know you remember it and I know you

remember the the hell bent speed that everybody seems to be going

on. We're tunnel visioned, you know,

we don't pop our heads up for moments like that.

And I mean, I think back to growing up, you think about

Reader's Digest, right? And Reader's Digest, in between

all the articles, they always had these little, teeny, tiny

little anecdotes, the life like that kind of anecdotes.

And I find that those are going away unless we have some sort of

a, of a quest like this or a mandate like this.

You know, again, these are some of those things that you never

even would have thought of you. OK?

I've got to take someone's got to take care of mom.

I'll take care of mom. We'll make it happen, right?

But you don't imagine that those little life like that moments

are going to happen. And here you are years later,

talking about those little moments, the the carpet square

versus the cookie. You know, that's a beautiful

little story there. Yeah.

Wouldn't happen if you didn't take time and and and be present

with your mom the way that you were.

Yeah, and, and I think that, you know, my intention wasn't

originally to write a book. I, I, I, I have a, a, a, a, a

history of recording family events and stuff like that

because I want to memorialize them.

So I, that's kind of in my background, but also I think

from my screen writing and stuff in Hollywood, if I see what I

think is an interesting story, I think about, oh, what could I do

to make this into a movie? And but I started originally

taking notes because again, I was Privy to all these wonderful

moments, some very interesting conversations and my mother had

some pretty interesting visions early on.

I didn't want my siblings to miss out because I was

experiencing these things everyday.

So I just started recording all those things.

There were a couple other things.

I think being a son, I think I took maybe a little more of a

romantic approach with mom and I had a great relationship with

her, with my dad as well. So I grew up with three sisters,

so all had long hair. So I, I knew how to take care of

hair and brush hair and braid and, and I knew how to paint my

mother's nails. Her nails were like the crown

jewels. Had to be very careful with

those and, and with lipstick and things like that.

And when I first got home, you know, my mother had these old

tattered, drab day dresses. And I said, now we got to jazz

this up. So if you want to cheer anybody

up at any age, a new wardrobe will do that.

And so I bought her a new wardrobe of these very nice day

dresses. Her legs were still in pretty

good shape for her age. So I bought them on the shorter

side and and she loved them. And it was fabulous.

And so my mom had six kids and she worked full time for the

largest newspaper in New Jersey called the Bergen Record.

And she worked the night shift and she only treated herself to

a weekly visit to the beauty salon where she had a shampoo

and set and had her nails done. And when she would visit me in

Lai would take her to my friend's beauty parlor in

Beverly Hills where she got the movie star treatment.

And I knew that she loved that. I don't know the last time she

went to a beauty parlor or anything like that, but I, I

created what I called Day of Beauty to try to recreate that

at home. And so normally I gave her the

sponge baths in the morning and evenings.

But for Day of Beauty, while she sat on the commode, I soaked her

feet in Epsom salts. I shampooed and rinsed and and

conditioned her hair and then got her finished on the commode,

got her on the bed and gave her the full sponge bath and a body

massage. Full massage and body lotion and

the baby powder and the new diaper.

And then she chose her new wardrobe.

And then it's another thing we take for granted.

In between getting her up and into the wheelchair, we came up

with another one of our little special routines, a morning hug.

Because it's difficult to hug our elders.

Usually they're lying in bed and, and it may hurt for them to

hug, if not make it almost impossible.

But touch is really important. And so we we would hug and it

would be fabulous. And neither one wanted to let

go. And then I would get her in the

wheelchair and then I would blow dry her hair and put it in a

ponytail or sometimes the braid and, and then I would do her

nails and then gave her a little touch of lipstick to match the

nails and usually bright red. And I didn't think that much of

it. I thought, oh, this is a nice,

nice gesture. So I'm Wheeling her into the

kitchen for breakfast and we pass by our dining room big

mirror in the dining room. And I pass by and I park her in

front of that dining room mirror and she is looking at her

reflection and beaming. And I'm like, wow.

So I lean in. I said, who is that pretty girl?

And she just, it was beautiful. The effect on her and certainly

on me was just profound. I didn't think, you know, again,

it was a nice gesture. But boy, the power of that.

And I learned an important lesson is wanting to feel pretty

does not end with at 90 or any age, you know, And it's for men

as well. Two days before my dad passed,

my dad was very strict Catholic, and his hair was always neatly

combed. He had a comb in his wallet and

always clean shaven. And so my sister and I shaved

him because we knew when he met Jesus, he wanted to be in, you

know, looking as good as he could.

And he so appreciated that. So it goes with men and women.

And again, these are things that we think aren't important and

they, they really are. And as I've shared this story

with more people, they're saying that more assisted living and

more nursing homes are starting to bring in people to do these

things, whether they're beauticians or whatever.

But the wardrobe and the day of beauty were, were magical.

And, and it was infectious because everybody who saw her

saw, you know, it was radiating. It was fabulous.

It's, it's a dignity thing, I think, and, and, and, and

dignity and self esteem. Sometimes I think you're

connected to each other and, and, and so, you know, if you

can, if you can improve the self esteem, you could also improve

the dignity or vice versa. It's probably both of those

things. I I would think, you know,

knowing that somebody cares and, and I mean, going through

looking at the pictures that you had, you know, with mom and,

and, and, you know, knowing that there was downtime that was

there. So the pictures that that that,

that you have are just, they're precious.

I mean, and, and, and it's something that like, I've, I've

learned a lot throughout listening to you here.

The idea that you were taking notes so your siblings who

weren't there could, could, could see that, but also taking

the photos that you did, you know, allowed a very similar

kind of a kind of a thing. Now you also have some downtime.

You're ready to the house. I get it.

Were you writing at that time? You're writing the notes and

whatnot? Were you writing screenplays or

were you writing? When did you start this book

Throughout the process of where your mom was?

Well, while I was, I guess during my journey, a friend of

mine was going through something similar with her dad.

And so I shared some of my experience and also what I

learned from Hospice, the tips and tricks, and she got some

benefit out of it. And that's when the idea of a

book came in because again, my first instinct is how do I make

it into a movie? And I said, no, I think this

could help people and certainly put it out a lot faster than a

movie. And, and, and so that was it.

But I couldn't, again, because of the emotions and all that

stuff, I couldn't write. So I just kept writing notes and

when I would be inspired or something hit to say, oh, this

story would be helpful. And because there's a lot of

back story in it that helped, I think justify why I did what I

did. And it was the way I was brought

up by my family, not only my parents, but my siblings and

stuff like that. So I, I couldn't write the book

until I moved to France and I never wrote a book.

So I wanted to study a memoir. And so I, I, I online, I studied

A memoir course and, and did a few of those courses.

And then my memoir teacher actually was my first editor and

she gave me some great notes. And then I also said I wanted to

be published. So I wanted to make it as good

as possible. And I had two publishers that

were interested. And, and so that was kind of

nice because at that point I was in my 60s.

So I found my first publisher and, and the, the book is done

very well. It's won a bunch of awards

selling well. And the, the, the personal notes

I've received from people who have read it have been the best

and just lovely and very touching. 11 I'll share this,

this girl, I think she's from my hometown.

I didn't know her, but I'm very aggressive with the, with the

marketing and social media. So a lot of people from my

hometown have become followers on Facebook.

Sure. And so she contacted me.

She says, you know, my mom's 95. I bought your book and I'm

reading it to her and we're both really enjoying it.

And then the next year she contacted me.

She goes, my mom's 96 now and I wanted to let you know we're

reading your book again because we had so much fun the first

time in Wow. And then she wrote me a couple

weeks after that and she said, I just want you to know my mother

passed away a couple weeks ago. And your book has helped me so

much, not only before, but but during the process now because

of your sense of humor and stuff like that.

And I just thought that that was just beautiful and and really

generous of her to share that with a stranger basically.

Or maybe we're not strangers now that she's read the book a

couple times. Because my girlfriend here says,

boy, you get to know a lot about him when we're done with this

one, which is probably true. But that, yeah, that was

beautiful. So the awards and and the book

sales is now it's going to be published in China and Taiwan

and South Korea so far. And but those personal notes are

the are are the best. Yeah, I mean, don't, don't get

me wrong seeing the book up in Times Square, the picture and

and I mean, I can only imagine, you know, what mom and dad would

think about the idea of a of, of one of their family stories.

When you see that the the you know, up on the on the on the

board in Times Square, it's such a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Especially Jersey boy, who early on in Manhattan is the place,

right. You're going across, you're

performing at the center and all that.

That's that's kind of that's one of those things where it's like,

Oh my gosh, the full circle parts of it.

But then you take, you know that that's great and it's nice.

Gratify, gratification is great. There's nothing wrong with

gratification. It's a wonderful, wonderful

emotion and, and, and feeling. But then like you look at all

the layers down that are so much deeper than that as to what

you're talking about here. It's it's, it's a beautiful,

beautiful thing. I just before we finish out, I

know time gets really, really slippery when we do this.

But when you do do the next book, I want to have you back on

and, and I just appreciate I, I like Mark, I can't tell you how

much I appreciate you sharing the things that you've shared.

There's a lot of clues here for people who are going through

this stuff or or maybe about to that they can hear.

And I that's what he, he, he cast is all about what he

changed. It's all about right And, and,

and the fact that the fact that it's not one of her daughters,

the fact that you are one of the sons, you know, I, I think a lot

of time the caregiver does because is, is, is, is the woman

many times. And, and the fact that you, you

did this and not only did it, but wrote such a, such a

wonderful, wonderful retelling of the story that will make you

laugh. And, and the squeamish parts

aren't so squeamish. They're a matter of fact that

people, you know, they're facts that people need, matters of

fact that people need is what I wanted to say.

I'm very grateful for that. How did you end up going to the

South of France? How did that happen?

Well, I had an ex-girlfriend, always wanted to retire here and

I guess I put the bug in my ear. I thought, you know, if I

retire, it's going to be on a Caribbean island or maybe Italy.

I've been to my grandfather came from Italy and I've been to his

little village and I thought that that would be a place.

But I came to France with her for the first time and and it

was great. We spent a week in Provence with

French friends from Paris and then we spent a week at their

place in Paris. And so my introduction was

fabulous. And we also, my mother's mother

had French in her. And so we have French on the on

the other side of the family. So I think my French ancestors

had something to do with it. And then a couple years later,

she found we were no longer a couple, but still in France

because I was at at home taking care of mom.

And she said, oh, I found a place in this where I am now.

It's a little village called Pesenas in the southwest part of

French. And, and, and I said, well, if

you want to make it a vacation home, maybe we'll both go in and

invest in this thing. And so I came over here almost

11 years ago, actually this month, actually, I think today

is when I landed here and I found I spent five days in this

village, fell in love with the people and found this house and

put an offer in. It was accepted.

And then I moved here a couple years later after five days.

Again, not knowing the language, I never expected to move to

France, but I think I think the French ancestors had something

to do with it because none of this should have worked out.

And the people here are lovely and they forgive me for my I

think my goal here is not to speak French, but to teach them

English, because as soon as I start speaking French, they go

right into English. Don't worry about it.

Don't worry about it. Let's just do that.

Yeah. The reason I ask is because, you

know, you've always been the guy who, who, who has chased the

things that you, you, you want to do and, and, and then you go

through this experience with mom and, and, and, and then you

write about it, You get it out there.

I mean, the therapeutic, I mean the parts that we could talk

about the therapeutic, you know, results from writing out the

story and getting out there the way that you did.

I mean endless. We could get into that, that

those are those are obvious, But I was just curious if the

ordeal, the experience said, you know what?

This makes me want to do another kind of life change and, and do

a reset and start. And if it had anything to do

with that, or if you would have ended up in France anyway

somehow. Excellent question.

I have no idea. Again, I like adventure and

maybe I needed a change again, losing at that point both of my

folks. I'm still close with my

siblings, but again, I moved out of the house shortly after I

turned 18. I never really lived back there

except when I returned to take care of mom.

And so I, you know, went to school in Ohio, The Ohio State

University, and then she. Represent.

And then Hollywood and and and and then back to Jersey.

So, yeah. And then I guess I had to take a

bigger leap. So I went across the Atlantic.

But the language is challenging for me.

Boy, it's, it's, it shouldn't be that hard.

We have so many words in common that I think they said there's

40,000 words in common. But boy, Yep, I don't, I don't

know. Those words seem to escape me.

There's so, but they're lovely. And the wine here, it's the

largest wine growing region in the world.

And the wine is cheaper than water.

So if you're into wine, it's great.

If you're not, it's a freaking nightmare.

But luck. Luckily I'm into the wine so

it's nice. Well, the the the book I want to

I want to make sure we we exclamation point the book, a

cup of tea on the commode. What's the best way for people

to buy? Obviously Amazon and all that's

there. But whenever authors are on

here, if they've got it on their own site or something like that,

I always want to make sure I plug that.

Not saying that Amazon's a bad thing, but I just feel that

creators many times sometimes don't get what they're, they're

just desserts sometimes from that.

So I've if if people want to buy a cup of tea on the commode,

where's the best place that you would like to send them?

Well, again, it it would be Amazon or Barnes and Noble, any,

any online site or if they go to the, if they Google a cup of tea

and the commode were everywhere. I mean, the website also has a

purchase button which will give them lots of options because the

publisher and our distributor has this all over the world,

which is lovely. And so if people, let's say anti

Amazon, there's plenty of other places and it comes an e-book,

audio book, a large print and also the paperback.

And and you read the audio book, you finally got it.

You got it out there and you. Read it, got it together.

Yeah. Well, that's great, I think.

No, it's the way it should be. It's the way it should be

because it comes from, Oh yeah, it's from you, right.

Like like Steve Martin, you know, he did the audio book for

Bourne standing up and it's, it's, it's so it's, it's better

when if it's autobiographical, that the person reads it.

So I'm glad that you were able to, to get it together so you

could do that. That's a that's a beautiful

thing. You know, that's, I think

that's, it's one of the best ways to consume it because

you're hearing it directly from your mother, your words, it's

coming from you. And, and, and that's such a

personal, personal thing. I can't thank you enough, Mark

for, for, for, for documenting this.

I really think that what you've gone through, you've been able

to turn it into a, a, a, a bright light.

And I think that there are people who are you, you've

touched on how many people are being touched by the book and,

you know, hopefully we can further that.

And then there's guys that are out there that are hearing this

going, OK, you know what? There are ways that I can get

through this. I'm not alone.

And not only that, I can get a bit of a of a textbook as to as

to what to do and and and and and your story just serves as

such a a beautiful beacon for that.

So Mark, I just want to say thank you so much for taking

time out of your schedule to come on he cast today and tell

us your story. I appreciate it.

Well, I, I appreciate the opportunity because it, it, it

keeps mob in the present and and she keeps teaching, which is

which is lovely. So.

So I appreciate that. Oh, thank you so much.

This is why we do the show. You know, everybody's got a

story and and all of those stories contain some sort of

learning in it. Mark has done such a great job

of of of really putting that to the forefront.

If you haven't downloaded the He Changed it app, what the heck

are you waiting for? Go to heatchangeit.com and check

out what's going on. And this is just I just

appreciate hosting the show so much.

This has been another episode of he cast the official podcast of

He changed it. My name is Mike Chisholm.

Go change something.